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    • Hello CAG, Bit of a long post, may want to get a cuppa before starting reading... 😁   So, after being a lurker for many years and trying never to get into a mess with credit cards like i did 20 years ago, i've got myself into a mess with Amex... I've tried being open and honest with them, but now getting the feeling they are messing me around.  Its not a chargecard, but a Nectar Credit Card with them. Took out 2016. Balance is just under £15k as of today, was almost at £17k. Debt still owed by Amex, not been sent to NCO/Arrow etc - YET...    Background (short version): Was all fine with more than min. payment (£500 or so), being made until April 2020 when a number of things reduced my monthly salary from work (mainly, take a pay cut or be made redundant), so I soon quickly realised i needed to tighten my belt quickly.  Phoned Amex, advisor said nothing they could do except Payment Holiday. Was put onto that for 3 months, told that Amex will be in touch at the end to restart payments. I asked about interest being stopped/frozen/reduced - not possible. So agreed to payment holiday to give me breathing space.  3 months came and went, no contact from Amex... No payments made, interest still racking up at around £300 a month...  Rang Amex back (July 2020), we cant do anything today because your in the middle of the statement cycle call back next week. Called back week after, no solution yet (i asked about things i seen on Amex US website = Regain program - basically freeze card, lower interest rate and pay a set amount for 12 months - more about this later) > Not available in UK yet. Want to stay on payment holiday Mister B? I asked if there was any way interest could be stopped as this is making the balance increase and increase. No. Do you want to stay on Payment Holiday? Ok. (Bear in mind, if i came off Payment holiday. Minimum Payment was around £570 per month.  So, stayed on payment holiday... Didnt hear anything from Amex again. Called back up in September 2020. Please call back in October after 10th and we can assit. Called back after October 10, went through loads of stuff, different options etc, was warned that Payment Holiday might not be extended much longer, but now have a program. Worked out with Amex woman that i could pay around £200 per month. But please stop interest - no we cant but we can reduce this down to 9.9APR instead of 23%... . Amex woman said she needed to submit details to 'Seniors' at Amex, please call back next week for update. Called back week after, advised that first Amex woman was wrong and had made mistakes, shouldnt have told me what she had told me, £200 is too low, minimum would be £389 per month for 12 months or account will default. Told Amex woman 2 that couldnt afford it, went through this last time, etc etc. Amex woman 2 went off, came back, £329.74 is mininum they can possbily accept, 12 months at that amount per month and interest would be lowered, but not stopped. If you dont take out this 'Program' then account will default and will be passed to NCO or Arrow (I hate them both).  Went off, tried to get loans etc, all refused. Rang Amex back, reluctantly agreed so i can basically keep credit rating at 'good'.  So, been paying since Nov 2021 @ £329.74.    Letter arrived in December - due to out mess up with moving accounts around whilst on payment holiday, we are going to give you £3074 back. Logged into account, only £30.74 refunded, not £3074. Phoned Amex cos thought it was a joke/mistake - Spoke to some bloke - Oh dont worry, the rest will be applied to account automatically in 7 days. he advised was genuine but then got cut off during call. Called back, spoke to some other bloke, yes, looks genuine but please hold... Came back 10 minutes later. Oh, its a mis-print, your not the only customer to receive one of these. Each should have been £30.74 not £3074. Me = Gutted.    Wrote a letter to Amex saying how dissatisifed i was with general customer service and felt they were incompentant, blah blah etc. Final response received, Complaint partially upheld, heres £150 credit because we were a bit silly, but thats it. IF your still not happy, go to FOS.  Opened a case with FOS... Have basically sent them the complaint letter to them and have had a call from them about this... FOS are backlogged though and will take another 3 months for complaint to be looked at by them.   Let me make this 100% clear, fully admit to owning the debt, yep, ive spent this money (wish I knew what on, cos having got much to show from it - just general stuff and holidays)... Not trying to shirk out of it, trying my best to keep up with re-payments but im really strugglling. After I got paid on 1st APril, after paying all outgoings i had £9.83 left in current account so am having to go into overdraft each month which is just a viscious circle.  I would really like to NOT have to down the default route and trash my credit rating and then have to deal with the morons at NCO / Arrow etc.    Meanwhile, this is where I need the advice of the CAG experts... - Credit Limit increases... These were coming every few months and it was just being upped and upped and upped. Credit limit eventually was stopped at £15,400. Some of the increases I never even received letter for, just noticed when I logged into account. >>>> Would this be a case for irresponsible lending? - Stopping interest - I've read something on FCA site that they reccomend (not policy) that if a customer is put onto a payment holiday then they reccomend freezing interest for customer so the debt doesnt continue to build. I've asked time and time again, Amex just refuse.  >>>> Any tips on how to get Amex to play ball?  - Full & Final/Short settlement I've rung Amex today, told them I might be able to pay it off. Initially they said full balance, i then pushed, they then said they would accept 80% of balance, pushed them a bit more, got it down to 70%. >>> Surprised, and then very surprised they would accept 70%, anyone else think this is a bit odd? Normally they wont budge, or they wont budge from their first offer... Could their be something wrong on account (missing CCA etc?), or do they want rid of me and account as much as I do with them? - Cant really keep going at these £329.74 repayments. Something is going to have to give somewhere. I believe they wont go any lower and they will just default it i send £100 instead of £329 and send it out to NCO/Arrow. This might not be a too bad thing though because this would stop the interest right? Anyone thoughts on this?    Anyone think of anything else I could try with them? Again, its still with Amex, not defaulted or anything yet, yep, its all my own fault, i've spent the money, dont deny that, just feel Amex have took advantage etc.   Many thanks for reading. Any advice is greatly appreicated.   Kr, Mista B.     
    • Ok so we have complained to HMRC but were still no further forward with getting the P45/P60. We need this as DVLA has said they need more proof of who he is before giving him a provisional license.  What more can l do. 
    • Hi All   just looking for some advice. I bought a used Porsche Boxster from one of Marshall motor group’s Audi dealers (can I name them?) recently and was assured that it received a major service in October 2020 in line with the manufacturers requirements. The service book confirms this. The dealer also told me on the phone that they have a 6 month rule with any mot or service being done if due within this period which assured me when making an offer over the phone on the car that it wouldn’t need anything doing for a while as I recall saying that.   However, digging through the receipts post delivery I saw that the service was in fact minor and after calling the specialist who serviced it in Oct both they (Sheepishly) and the invoice confirmed that the car did not receive new spark plugs, an air filter, brake fluid replacement or a new fan belt which have now all fallen due and hence the major service due warning light. Had I not investigated this then the car would have potentially gone another 4 years, so 8 in total without some of these items being done.   i emailed the salesman to ask what they would propose to do. The matter is complicated by my living 450 miles away in Scotland, and 200 from their nearest branch, a Mercedes dealer in the Lake District, so I suggested getting my cheapest local specialist to do the works that have fallen due, however I have received no response.   Whilst I am still within my 30 days i don’t want to reject the car, which is otherwise perfect, but the fact remains that the Audi 150 point check only asks for upcoming mot’s to be checked and not services and surely you wouldn’t buy an approved used car and expect to have the service light come on 2 weeks later and have to spend almost £500 putting it right.   i would really appreciate some advice on next steps and perhaps who to escalate this to. Meantime the car is booked in for 2 weeks time to get the work done at the cheapest reputable place I could find.   Many, many thanks in advance
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.


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Copy and paste the link mate, goes a bit funny when clicked on for some reason

I have no legal qualifications whatsoever, so please check any input I have for accuracy. And please correct me if you disagree!

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The OFT disagreed with elements of the Royal Bank of Scotland versus McGuffick court case, which said threatening legal action does not constitute enforcement. While acknowledging the case, it said: "A creditor should in no way mislead a debtor as to the enforceability of the agreement. To do so would be an unfair of improper business practice and would be highly relevant to the creditor’s or owner’s fitness to hold a licence."

 

It added: "No communications or requests for payment should in any way threaten court action or other enforcement of the debt where the creditor or owner is aware that it cannot or will not be entitled to enforce."

 

The OFT then went further, insisting that communications with the debtor should in fact make it clear that the debt is unenforceable.

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How many creditors do you think will comply with the last paragraph in 5.6?

 

LOL!

 

"Thirdly, the creditor or owner should make it clear in

communications to the debtor that the debt is in fact

unenforceable. Failure to do so, where the creditor or owner is

aware of unenforceability, would in our view unfairly mislead the

debtor by omission."

 

I bet they choked on their biscuit at that one!

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How many creditors do you think will comply with the last paragraph in 5.6?

 

LOL!

 

"Thirdly, the creditor or owner should make it clear in

communications to the debtor that the debt is in fact

unenforceable. Failure to do so, where the creditor or owner is

aware of unenforceability, would in our view unfairly mislead the

debtor by omission."

 

I bet they choked on their biscuit at that one!

Actually, I am the proud owner of such a letter. :D:D

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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Confused..

 

My wife is dealing via a large Claims Mgt Co , following recent ruling HSBC have sent them a reconstituted agreement with her name, address & date on it.

 

The Claims Mgt Co confirm now have to accept this as a " TRUE COPY " and cannot take any further action.

 

HSBC do not say in any correspondence if unenforceable or not.

 

What is the situation if they now start proceedings aginst my wife ?

 

Can the reconstituted agreement be used in Court to enforce the agreement or do they still have to produce an original signed agreement.

 

Perhaps someone can clarify .

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Confused..

 

My wife is dealing via a large Claims Mgt Co , following recent ruling HSBC have sent them a reconstituted agreement with her name, address & date on it.

 

The Claims Mgt Co confirm now have to accept this as a " TRUE COPY " and cannot take any further action.

 

HSBC do not say in any correspondence if unenforceable or not.

 

What is the situation if they now start proceedings aginst my wife ?

 

Can the reconstituted agreement be used in Court to enforce the agreement or do they still have to produce an original signed agreement.

 

Perhaps someone can clarify .

 

 

Havent the claims management company answered your questions then ? reconstituted agreements are for section 77/79 requests etc to be enforced an agreement has to be in proper format with all prescribed terms and signed by your wife etc there is a muddying of waters whether they would have to produce original in court if they say they have lost it got burnt etc how can they ? How can you show one was not signed by balance of probabilities ? Regards Gaz

Edited by gaz2954
typo
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Havent the claims management company answered your questions then ? reconstituted agreements are for section 77/79 requests etc to be enforced an agreement has to be in proper format with all prescribed terms and signed by your wife etc there is a muddying of waters whether they would have to produce original in court if they say they have lost it got burnt etc how can they ? How can you show one was not signed by balance of probabilities ? Regards Gaz

 

No, all the CMG will say is that following the ruling they have to accept what was provided as a " True Copy " and the case dropped. Aparantly they cannot take ANY action unless the Lender states they cannot provide a copy of the original or a reconstituted copy.

 

They will not give any assurance that a court would not accpt the reconstituted copy in Court as the original.

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No, all the CMG will say is that following the ruling they have to accept what was provided as a " True Copy " and the case dropped. Aparantly they cannot take ANY action unless the Lender states they cannot provide a copy of the original or a reconstituted copy.

 

They will not give any assurance that a court would not accpt the reconstituted copy in Court as the original.[/quot

 

yes they are right may up to what judge you have etc and how strong is your case didnt your wife sign one then ? Did she have a card did she use the money ? Why shouldnt she pay if she borrowed it ? This is what the court could say ? Did she get prescribed terms why take to claims management company ? Why didnt you come here for help sure youve lost money now havent you ?

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No, all the CMG will say is that following the ruling they have to accept what was provided as a " True Copy " and the case dropped. Aparantly they cannot take ANY action unless the Lender states they cannot provide a copy of the original or a reconstituted copy.

 

They will not give any assurance that a court would not accpt the reconstituted copy in Court as the original.

And I am sorry I have to disagree. The Laws are made by Parlament and endorsed by the House of Lords before they go for Royal Assent (i.e. signed by the Queen and Lord Barons).

 

Neither Judge Wakesman, nor the Court and least of all the OFT have the right to change the law but must abide by the law. And one of the rules made by the Lord Chancellor is:

 

CPR Practice direction 16 para 7.3

 

7.3

 

Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing, and

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STATEMENTS OF CASE - Ministry of Justice

 

And in PRACTICE DIRECTION – CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 – UNFAIR RELATIONSHIPS - Ministry of Justice that CPR is not removed.

 

And neither is there any amendments notes made.

 

BUT........... as said, it does fall on the law of probability which basically you can claim that they have to submit the original at the hearing but if the judge thinks (like the bank shows that you had been receiving regular statements, making regular purchases, making regular payments) that you are trying to use the court to avoid paying your debt he/she might not be as blunt as the judge that humbleman got but will no doubt find some other error.

 

But, why not contact the CMC and challenge them pointing them to that rule???????

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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it's not the CMC, it's actually the weak, 4th rate solicitors behind them who are very unsure of the act, recent judgements, and all future judgements.

 

i know very well in my capacity that there are just not enough decent law firms out there who know how to proceed correctly and efficently with a claim.

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What would be really helpful is a list of 1st rate decent solicitors who know what they are doing.

Brooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooce's success's so far:

 

Capital One - 15% f & f saving £4,250

Barclaycard - 25% f & f saving £12,000

Blackhorse - reduced loan settlement saving £1,605

Cahoot - 15% f & f saving £2,740

MBNA - 20% f & f saving £26,800

Lloyds TSB 28% f & f saving £7,377

 

Total written off to date: £54,772!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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i know very well in my capacity that there are just not enough decent law firms out there who know how to proceed correctly and efficently with a claim.

That is the equivalent of telling somebody who has to do 8 weeks working in Libya in the desert on oil rigs, not being able to have a decent drink, seeing only camels backsides every day and telling him you know where he can have a good pint of lager and a great shag with georgeous women but not disclosing the location. :D:D

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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i like that Nick does paint a picture

:D:D:D Its true isn't it? :D:D:D

 

Anyway......... just a bit of humour.

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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Joking apart...........

 

Here is something you can do when making an s.77/s.78 application.

 

Add to the template that you are drawing to the banks attention that you know that CPR Practice direction 16 para 7.3

 

7.3

 

Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing,

 

Then add you will be checking the document they will send you and you are reminding them that if you dispute the document and it goes to court they will have to make the original available at court. Then ask them to confirm if they have the original.

 

Might get the letter saying yes. Might get the letter saying no. Might get a bluff letter but if you get a bluff letter then you can work out if they have it or not. ;);) IF they start about copy documents and Carey v HSBC just write back and tell them "Confirm whether you will be able to submit the original in Court. That is the law. Judge Haksman and the OFT have to abide by the Law and are not authorised to make or change the law.".

 

Sometimes, taking the bull by the horns is a good thing.

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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No good knowing the location nick, if its a private members club and you are not allowed in.

Diversing from the subject, actually I used to work once looking after men who used to work in Libya while they used to be in transit going into Libya and coming out of Libya.

 

I was a very nice person and knowing that they had not had a good pint for ages and not seen a good looking woman for weeks I used to take them to a private club. A total private club where you could have a lovely pint and loads of beautiful women all around you. Imagine......... say you and your 5 mates have come in.......... you are drinking a nice cold beer and besides you and your mates there are ONLY women.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I never told them was it was a ? bar. :D:D:D

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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nick - this is CAG, i am not allowed to post up link to solicitors etc

 

template letters etc is the way forward, apparently :p

Dont blame me! I dont need one. Was just having a laugh. :D:D Anyway, what is your pm box like? Think you are going to get some pm's though.

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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