Stressed V Barclaycard

[Stressed150]

Hi guys, sent CCA request to Bcard in April 2009, and have since recieved a copy of their terms and conditions in August 2009 (no sigs etc). In the letter they further state they have complied with section 78 despite having ommited interest rates due to the current state of my account?(!)

 

Sent Sar in July to which they have sent copy statements in August 2009, and in this letter they state that this is all the info they hold on me in relation to the said account (no CCA, no PPI info, no termination notices, no default notcies etc).

 

Is there a templae letter on here to say that their response does not comply with my CCA?

 

And should I just write to them stating that if thy do not hold any further info on me I am requesting they write off the balance etc?

[debt4get]

yes there are templates or this, sharkelys are notorious or not supplyig the correct info there are many threads devoted to them

[Stressed150]

Hi debt4get could you please point me i n the direction of the templates Im having trouble finding them....

[debt4get]

Account In Dispute

Ref:

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter of xxxxxxxxz, the contents of which have been noted.

It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

You have provided me a copy of an agreement and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your comments.

 

Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement, a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

 

Now then, these regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

 

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;

(b)Amount of repayments;

©Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d)Dates of repayments;

(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Now nowhere on the agreement that you supplied is there any reference to these terms. I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect

 

 

 

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regulations under s60 CCA1974

 

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms. Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

Could you also please confirm in writing that in the event of any court action by yourselves this will be the document you intend to present to the court in order to enforce alleged debt.

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

 

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Yours faithfully

 

you can try this one if you like..the part underlined 'are these the documents you intend to rely on in court.....I added cos I was getting so pee'd off with them. it is up to you whether you leave that part in

 

[harrassed senior]

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/582-possible-letter-when-a-questionable-agreementapplication-is-sent

[debt4get]

also remove not an application

[Stressed150]

Ok, not gettin anywhere with BCard....sent the below letter to them....

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should be presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

 

Regards

 

 

To which they responded with a template letter which Im sure most of you are familiar with, basically saying We hae complied with section 78 etc etc etc...... can I send the letter that you wrote debt4get?

[debt4get]

its the norm for barclayshark to come up with this rubbish..there a loads of threads with the same rubbish, send em the letter but dont be surprised if you get the same rubbish back..the only good thing is barclays are normally extremely reluctant to initiate court action...as no agreement...stick to your guns

[Stressed150]

Thanks debt4get