Shoplifting

[Crapstone]

If Pinky has a court date then it would have been looked at as in the public interest already.

 

I don't, for one minute,think that a 'shoplifter' would leave the store, go to cafe and then return to the store with the goods still on display in an area that must have had CCTV signs clearly visible. They have to primarily prove that Pinky intended (mens rea) to permantly deprive the store of the value of the goods, and not just for the duration of having a bite to eat and forgetting that they had the goods.

 

If Pinky is guilty then hang me too! My son 'shoplifted' something when he was a baby. I have no idea what store it came from as he'd taken any identifying tags off it and I wasn't about to drive back to the shopping centre and retrace every step I made asking if it belonged to them.

 

If a store in Merry Hill can vouch that they had an item taken 14 years ago then please contact me and I'll gladly reimburse you for the bit of tat that my son took a liking to with interest added!

 

Purely of my own opinion I'd opt for the Magistrates as the Crown Court can impose stiffer penalties if you are found guilty and it's not something I'd like to go through. But your solicitor should advise you on what is best for you and guide you through it to achieve the best possible outcome which will hopefully be a dismissal with no case to answer.

[Crapstone]

I'm also interested to know why the police were there and the process they went through to arrest you. If they have fluffed up on PACE then that could be another string in your bow to add to your defence.

[Crapstone]

Sorry to be a pest Pinky but were you in an enclosed shopping centre or on an open street?

[funkyparott]

That is not always the case. What happens if a particulary grumpy Stipendiary magistrate is sitting? (a single, legally qualified mag who sits alone). Stipendiary magistrates do sit quite often in the magistrates court.

 

I would be inclined to listen to what your solicitor recommends as to the best venue for your case.

 

Magistrates are sometimes seen to 'side' more with the Police.

 

If this case is not particulary strong, I bet you CPS drop it if you go for Crown Court trial. Crown Court judges do not take kindly to the CPS presenting 'flimsy cases'.

 

As I said, I'm sure your solicitor can advise.

 

For an indictable offence (which theft is), as has been pointed out - this is an either way offence.

Your solicitor will probably advise you that the punishments handed out by Crown Courts on guilty pleas tend to be

more harsh than if from a magistrate.

 

Trust me, the magistrates is where you want to start Once you are there, and over the "pre-flight" nervousness, it isn't as bad as it seems.

 

The magistrates are people who "volunteer" and are every day people from all walks of life. There (normally) will be three of them and a "court clerk" (who advises the Magistrates on the legal issues).

 

 

The crown court is for more serious "offences" and is also where appeals from the magistrates go. In an apeal from the magistrates, there will be two magistrates and a Judge.

Edited August 27, 2009 by funkyparott

[patdavies]

That is not always the case. What happens if a particulary grumpy Stipendiary magistrate is sitting? (a single, legally qualified mag who sits alone). Stipendiary magistrates do sit quite often in the magistrates court.

 

 

There is no longer any such thing as a stipendiary magistrate.

 

In a Magistrates' Court, you will either get a bench of three lay magistrates (who depend on the legal advisor (Clerk) for points of law) or you get a District Judge.

 

DJs tend to take the more complex cases where there are arguments of points of law rather than fact..

[Desperate Daniella]

I think the Richard Madeley case seemed far more likely to get him convicted than you. He went to trial by jury.

 

Just in case you don't remember that, Pinky, he didn't put loads of bottles of booze on the counter, and said that he thought the cashier had scanned them in the trolley. He said he didn't notice that his bill was about £80 less than it should have been. The jury believed him. I can't see a jury convicting a dazed young mum with a week old baby at the time this occurred.

 

DD

[funkyparott]

There is no longer any such thing as a stipendiary magistrate.

 

In a Magistrates' Court, you will either get a bench of three lay magistrates (who depend on the legal advisor (Clerk) for points of law) or you get a District Judge.

 

DJs tend to take the more complex cases where there are arguments of points of law rather than fact..

 

You are quite correct, apologies. However, prior to 2000 they were know as Stipendiary magistrates.

 

"Until August 2000 these District Judges were known as Stipendiary Magistrates, but were renamed in order to recognise them as members of the professional judiciary"

 

(source: Magistrates and Magistrates' Courts)

[Ell-enn]

Pinky - go to your doctor and explain what happened, he/she will know exactly how you must have been feeling with a 1 week old baby. I'm sure your doc will write a letter to the court for you - I've known a case where a doctor actually went to court to support his patient who had been accused of shoplifting when she was suffering "absent minded" spells due to the menopause.

[farmlama]

I have a little girl myself and have been guilty of forgetting to pay for random things while shopping, like giving her a tin of something to hold to keep her occupied while shopping and forgetting at the till. when somebodys worried about something theres no need to start being mean and making them feel worse, i hope that something like this happens to you one day so youll know how easily its done and how the poor woman feels

Edited August 29, 2009 by Rooster-UK
Quote of unapproved post removed.

[Ell-enn]

Samidoodle, just because you have been fortunate in not having any problems following the birth of your children it does not give you the right to judge others.

 

This purpose of this site is to give constructive advice and support to others who need help and we do not judge. If you are unable to do that then perhaps you should find a site more receptive to your particular style of "support".

[Rooster-UK]

Two posts unapproved.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Rooster-UK

[Crapstone]

I think I must have missed something but can see that someone wasn't very supportive of the OP.

 

Hopefully Pinky will see that we don't all share that view and she will post again but either way I wish her all the best and she can PM me off the boards if she wants to.

[Guest sammiedoodle]

OP, why did you move the stuff behind other bags? and go for lunch with the unpaid for purchases still with you? I can get that people are sometimes forgetfull but you were seen to be hiding the items in question they even showed you the CCTV footage of you doing it.

[WelshMam2009]

The police are saying the only reason i returned to the store is because i saw the security guards following me (clearly i didnt).

 

You honestly mean to say that the Police are claiming the security guards were unable to catch up with you Pinky, a week after giving birth and pushing a pram with two young children???!!!!

 

Totally ridiculous!!

[WelshMam2009]

OP, why did you move the stuff behind other bags? and go for lunch with the unpaid for purchases still with you? I can get that people are sometimes forgetfull but you were seen to be hiding the items in question they even showed you the CCTV footage of you doing it.

 

 

When you're struggling with young children you hang items wherever you can. You can't carry a basket and ultimately your intended purchases will have to go somewhere on the pram.

 

I suspect the CCTV footage more than likely shows the OP fumbling to hang the items rather than trying to conceal them.

[Desperate Daniella]

I did see the posting on my email alert. It wasn't very kind.

 

Sammiedoodle, you may be the perfect supermum, back to normal within hours/days of giving birth, but us lesser mortals do get distracted, and I absolutely agree with WelshMam that when you have children in tow, maybe a crying baby, and you are struggling with shopping, hanging stuff where you can put it is very common and there is no intention whatsoever of not paying for it. I've already said I put a candle tray in the basket under my pushchair because it wouldn't fit in the hand basket, and from your point of view I am obviously a very guilty person too.

 

We are supposed to be supportive on the group, but if someone has come on and said they have intentionally behaved badly and want to avoid the consequences then they don't get approval or support here. However, I don't feel from Pinky's posts that this is the case here at all, and clearly most people agree.

[Guest sammiedoodle]

When you're struggling with young children you hang items wherever you can. You can't carry a basket and ultimately your intended purchases will have to go somewhere on the pram.

 

I suspect the CCTV footage more than likely shows the OP fumbling to hang the items rather than trying to conceal them.

 

 

No, the OP has admitted that she had the items hung at the front and then moved them behind her bags when she went to the cafe for lunch

[Guest sammiedoodle]

I did see the posting on my email alert. It wasn't very kind.

 

Sammiedoodle, you may be the perfect supermum, back to normal within hours/days of giving birth, but us lesser mortals do get distracted, and I absolutely agree with WelshMam that when you have children in tow, maybe a crying baby, and you are struggling with shopping, hanging stuff where you can put it is very common and there is no intention whatsoever of not paying for it. I've already said I put a candle tray in the basket under my pushchair because it wouldn't fit in the hand basket, and from your point of view I am obviously a very guilty person too.

 

We are supposed to be supportive on the group, but if someone has come on and said they have intentionally behaved badly and want to avoid the consequences then they don't get approval or support here. However, I don't feel from Pinky's posts that this is the case here at all, and clearly most people agree.

 

maybe she is just telling the story how she thinks will benfit her best? or maybe and it's a big maybe she was innocent and just forgot to pay, but either way she is guilty of leaving the store with goods she didn't pay for. If the latter is the case and the judge buys it then she has nothing to worry about, but if indeed she is guilty then surely she must get some sort of punishment to act a deterant?

I'm certain that 9 out of 10 shoplifters proclaim their innocense so you can't really blame the retailer for persuing the case

Edited August 30, 2009 by sammiedoodle

[Crapstone]

maybe she is just telling the story how she thinks will benfit her best? or maybe and it's a big maybe she was innocent and just forgot to pay, but either way she is guilty of leaving the store with goods she didn't pay for. If the latter is the case and the judge buys it then she has nothing to worry about, but if indeed she is guilty then surely she must get some sort of punishment to act a deterant?

I'm certain that 9 out of 10 shoplifters proclaim their innocense so you can't really blame the retailer for persuing the case

 

Either way does it matter? Why would she come here to lie? We aren't the magistrates, judge or jury.

[Guest sammiedoodle]

Either way does it matter? Why would she come here to lie? We aren't the magistrates, judge or jury.

 

 

Who knows why people do the things they do

All im saying is if she's innocent then she has nothing to worry about and if she is guilty then she has to accept it

She would hardly come on here and say well acyually i did take the stuff and im just trying to find angles to get out of it

[Crapstone]

Who knows why people do the things they do

All im saying is if she's innocent then she has nothing to worry about and if she is guilty then she has to accept it

She would hardly come on here and say well acyually i did take the stuff and im just trying to find angles to get out of it

 

I just hope I never commit an offence and then have the pleasure of meeting you on a jury. :-|

[Guest sammiedoodle]

I just hope I never commit an offence and then have the pleasure of meeting you on a jury. :-|

 

 

Erm, if you commit an offence doesn't that make you guilty einstein?

go figure...

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Sammiedoodle,

 

My mum had a shop and people did come and steal things - quite deliberately. They are rotten, and I think we would all agree there.

 

Truly though, I think most shoplifters scarper as fast as they can. Pinky wandered about, sat down in the cafe, has said quite clearly that the babygros were put in the creases of the pram hood in clear view, realised she hadn't paid and went back to do so. If you wander around any supermarket you will often find that people hang large bags of loo rolls and stuff like that on the hook on the nearest bit of the trolley. It is a bit damning, I agree, that Pinky re-hung the stuff, but really with sleepless nights (unless she had the baby in 10 million who slept through the night from day one) I do think this situation is understandable.

 

I didn't get "caught" with my candle tray with very young baby, or apprehended when I left the cafe without paying for my coffee simply because my mind was all over the place about the robbery, and I am so, so relieved about that. (Paid for the coffee the next day, and offered to pay Ikea over the phone, but they said I would have to go back and pay there and that would have involved a 20 mile round trip, so didn't go straight back, and when I tried to pay on the next visit they thought I was totally mad, and didn't know what to do, and said forget it.)

 

I'm sure you are right, if Pinky is innocent she shouldn't have anything to worry about, but that won't stop her from being absolutely terrified in the meantime.

 

DD

[WelshMam2009]

Who knows why people do the things they do

All im saying is if she's innocent then she has nothing to worry about and if she is guilty then she has to accept it

She would hardly come on here and say well acyually i did take the stuff and im just trying to find angles to get out of it

 

You don't work for RLP by any chance do you Sammie??

 

We're not here to morally judge anyone. This is a new Mum whose hormones will be all over the place.

 

If you don't have any constructive advice or comments for the OP then perhaps you should refrain from posting on this particular thread.

[Guest sammiedoodle]

I'll post where and what I ike thanks, just because you don't agree with what I've said doesn't make you any better than me. shoplifters cost the retail trade millions why should they get away with it coz they think they have a get out of jail free card in having had a baby

 

 

NOT ON THIS SITE, YOU WON'T !

Rooster-UK.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Rooster-UK
Correction made!