DeviousDame v Halifax ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[deviousdame]

Hi Guys & Girls,

 

I've been following the steps to reclaim my bank charges from Halifax which stand at 2,111 pounds in the last 6 years, I sent my PREM Letter and LBA and have now received a letter offering to give me £210 as a good will gesture as long as I agree that its a full and final settlement...

 

now obviously I want to proceed and try to win back my full ammount (and interest?) and so I have a question as to the next step..

 

It says here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/243-step-step-instructions.html

 

C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. Again, we would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds. This is now the most likely outcome.

 

 

but then it also says

 

If you still don't get a full refund then you must now issue a court claim.There are 2 options -firstly online at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk - fill in the form. A rough pro forma text can be copied from the library section (also, part of the text you need is also on the moneyclaim website) - you will have to register there for free, but you will have to pay the fees associated with the case, with a credit or debit card. These are minimal and you will get them back from the bank when they refund your money should you win your case.

 

so my question is, do I need to write back to the bank stating that I accept their amount as a PARTIAL refund? or can I just procced to making the claim??

 

I'm a bit confused, any help appreciated

 

Thanks for looking

Damian

[libertie]

Hi Devious,

 

I would send a letter back to them, stating that you appreciate their goodwill gesture offer of £xx and you are willing to accept this offer as an interim payment only, not as full & final settlement. I then went on to say assuming you do refund £xxx please feel free to deduct it from the amount claimed below.

This is what has happened with most people, you won't get the full amount until you file with moneyclaim. I think its just courteous to reply to them as they have made you an offer.

So then yes move on to your next stage, as you have already told them what your next action will be.

 

Hope this helps

 

Libertie

[deviousdame]

Hi Devious,

 

I would send a letter back to them, stating that you appreciate their goodwill gesture offer of £xx and you are willing to accept this offer as an interim payment only, not as full & final settlement. I then went on to say assuming you do refund £xxx please feel free to deduct it from the amount claimed below.

This is what has happened with most people, you won't get the full amount until you file with moneyclaim. I think its just courteous to reply to them as they have made you an offer.

So then yes move on to your next stage, as you have already told them what your next action will be.

 

Hope this helps

 

Libertie

 

Hi Libertie,

 

Many thanks for your quick response. I agree that it would be courteous to reply and I shall do so using your text if you don't mind.

 

Assuming I do this tomorrow, should I wait for them to reply to that letter before I file the court claim, or should I just stick to the 14 days from my LBA?

 

sorry for all the questions, I just can't afford to screw this up

 

Kind Rgds,

Damian

[libertie]

When I replied with that response I tied it in with my LBA. You say you have already sent your LBA to them, have they had the 14 days?

 

If there is some time remaining for that I would just send your letter accepting their goodwill gesture and remind them that as already stated in your previous letter they have until your date before you start proceedings.

It's likely they won't refund this money anyway because you are not accepting it in full & final settlement.

 

If the 14 days is already up, entirely up to you I have given an extra 7 days to respond. But the chances are they are not going to pay up until you start proceedings, and others on this site would probably say you are entitled to moneyclaim as soon as your 14 days is up.

 

Hope this helps,

Libertie:)

[deviousdame]

When I replied with that response I tied it in with my LBA. You say you have already sent your LBA to them, have they had the 14 days?

 

The letter I received today offering me the 210 pounds as final settlement was in response to my LBA. Monday the 14th August will be 14 days from when I sent my LBA so that is when I am planning to file my claim.

 

Is there not a template for this "refusing to accept this 10% of my claim as a final settlement" anywhere to download,

 

I'm so afraid of making a mistake that maybe I should just continue with filing my court claim and not bother with acknowledging their measly offer ???

 

really appreciate your support, its good to share these things with others who have been through a similar thing. I notice from your sig that you got full refund within 3 months from starting proceedings, well done

 

Thanks Again, Damian

[AJG1969]

Hello Damien,

 

there is no standard for this reply, however thank them for thier kind offer, and that you are willing to accept the offer ONly in partial payment, but NOT FULL and Final payment.

 

Also add that you reserve the right to pursue the rest of the claim through the courts if needs be as stated in your LBA

 

Good Luck

 

Amanda

 

ps at this stage I was offered £915 for a claim of £2443

[deviousdame]

Thanks for that Amanda, I will certainly add that sentence as suggested..

 

I think what I'll do is draft my response tomorrow and post it up here for comments before I send it..

 

just to be sure

 

many thanks

Damian

[sohoscribbler]

As a lot of people aren't sure what to write, perhaps a template would be useful.

[deviousdame]

As a lot of people aren't sure what to write, perhaps a template would be useful.

 

couldn't agree more... any volunteers then :grin: :grin:

[sohoscribbler]

Mine went as follows. I am sure others can improve on it.

 

Your ref: XXXXXXXXX

Roll Number: XXXXXXXXXX

Sort Code and Account Number: XXXXXX/XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of XXX and your offer of XXX as a gesture of good will.

 

I must inform you that I will not be accepting this offer. As outlined in my earlier correspondence I explained that the charges you have applied to my account are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Further or in the alternative, I believe that your charges are a penalty.

 

Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79, along with Murray v. Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

Although in my original letter I informed you that I would start legal proceedings within 14 days, as a gesture of goodwill I shall give you an extra seven days to refund XXXX into my account. If this is not done within seven days, I shall be forced to start legal proceedings and you will receive no further warnings.

[deviousdame]

Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79, along with Murray v. Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but

Is that section just specific to you ot some kind of example statement ??

[libertie]

Damian,

 

I put mine as Final Letter Beofre Action,

 

Dear (halifax name),

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx xx xx. I appreciate the speed in which you have responded to my letter. I accept your goodwill gesture offer of £xx and I am willing to accept this offer as an interim payment only, not as full & final settlement.

 

(then just follow with the rest of the LBA)

 

I understand that the charges you have been etc etc

 

As your last paragraph you could put

 

I require repayment in full of this money. I am prepared to give you a further 7 days to reflect, which gives you until August 18th to satisfy my claim in full. If I do not receive a positive response from you by this date etc etc.

 

or alternatively

 

Dear xxxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx xx xx, I appreciate the speed in which you responded to my previous letter.

I am happy to accept your goodwill offer of £xx as an interim payment only and look forward to receiving this amount forthwith. Assuming this amount is refunded, please feel free to deduct it from the amount claimed below.

I calculate that you have taken £xxx from my account.

I require repayment in full of this money. I will be keeping to my original timetable which gives you until August 14th 2006 to satisfy my claim in full. If I do not receive a positive response from you by this date i will begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

It's up to you, as long as you give them the time you said you would, you won't make a mistake.

 

 

Libertie

[deviousdame]

Libertie, your a star :grin:

 

I have drafed the following which I will send tomorrow if you think this is ok ???

 

 

11th August 2006

 

FINAL LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: **********

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8th August 2006, I appreciate the speed in which you responded to my previous letter.

I am happy to accept your goodwill offer of £210.00 as an interim payment only and look forward to receiving this amount forthwith. Assuming this amount is refunded, please feel free to deduct it from the amount claimed below.

I calculate that you have taken £2,111 and I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 14th July 2006. I require repayment in full of this money.

 

I will be keeping to my original timetable which gives you until August 14th 2006 to satisfy my claim in full. If I do not receive a positive response from you by this date I will begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Do you think its ok though to say I'm sticking to my original timetable of the 14th Aug for next action when its already the 11th when I send the letter????

 

Thanks again

Damian

 

 

 

[hawkesi]

The Dunlop case is a very old but very important case that set the precedent of damages as opposed to penalties. In common law and contract, damages must be a genuine assessment/pre-estimate of the loss incurred. If this is not the case and the charge is higher then it is considered to be a penalty and unenforceable.

 

In my humble opinion, quoting case law in this case is a bit over the top and you really want to be coming across as the poor peasant that is getting shafted by the big bad bank.

 

Ian.

[deviousdame]

Right, Ive made up my mind and am going with this letter below... If somebody could just confirm thats this is ok within the next hour or so that would mean I could sleep easy tonight

 

Many Thanks

 

 

11th August 2006

 

 

FINAL LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: *************

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8th August 2006, I appreciate the speed in which you responded to my previous letter.

I am happy to accept your goodwill offer of £210.00 as an interim payment only and look forward to receiving this amount forthwith. Assuming this amount is refunded, please feel free to deduct it from the amount claimed below.

I calculate that you have taken £2,111 and I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 14th July 2006. I require repayment in full of this money.

 

I am prepared to give you a further 7 days to reflect, which gives you until August 18th to satisfy my claim in full.

 

If I do not receive a positive response from you by this date I will begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

[PeterG]

Hi

For what it's worth, this is the letter I sent, to which I have not received a reply. They've now received another letter, this time from HMCS!!

 

 

Penalty and unfair charges - Request for refund

Thank you for your letter dated 17 July 2006.

I note your comments with regard to costs incurred but whilst accepting that you pass costs on only to affected accounts, I am still of the opinion that overall, your default charges are per se exorbitantly excessive and a means of also securing further profit over and above your actual net costs. They are therefore according to the OFT deemed to be unfair unlawful penalties.

As I stated in my previous letter, the OFT further stress that any default charges should be based solely on those expenses actually incurred over and above your normal day-to-day running costs. I appreciate that some extra costs may indeed be incurred for administering my account for late/unpaid payments or overlimit situations but I am disappointed that you have not provided a more specific detailed explanation of a breakdown of those costs to substantiate and justify exactly how these ‘extra’ expenses, totalling £25 in respect of each and every default charge levied on my account, have been actually incurred.

Consequently, although I welcome your offer to refund charges to the value of £250, (which as you state, represents half the amount applied to my account in the last 12 months), I would respectfully point out that the OFT ruling is retrospective, not just for one year but over the last six years. Therefore I am only prepared to accept this sum in partial settlement of £1150, which to date is the current gross total sum of all unfair charges levied on my account by the Halifax over the last six years, and which I believe from my interpretation of the recent OFT publication, I am lawfully now entitled to reclaim.

I will hope to receive a positive response from you by Monday 31 July 2006. Otherwise, I will proceed forthwith and without further notice, to seek a fair and just settlement through the auspices of the Small Claims Court.

Yours sincerely

PeterG

[sohoscribbler]

Excellent letter.

[deviousdame]

Sent my Final Letter Before Action turning down their offer of £210 on Friday the 11th Aug by 1st Class recorded post..

 

If I don't hear from then by the 18th then I'll file my claim..

 

Thanks again for all your help

 

Fingers Crossed

 

Damian

[deviousdame]

Hi again everybody,

 

well my deadline has passed from my FLBA and so I'm just about to file my claim.. I just downloaded the claim particulars to use and I now have yet another question if you dont mind...

 

Do I need to ensure that my date of opening the account is spot on is or is ok to say 1994 ?

 

is there anywhere I can find this out without having to call the bank ???

 

Thank again for your help

 

Damian

[PeterG]

Hi Damian

 

You can only reclaim unfair/unlawful charges over the last six years so I would think that when you opened your account is of no relevance?

 

PeterG

[deviousdame]

Hi Peter,

 

But it says here in section 1 ????

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-particulars-claim-hard-copy.html

 

or do I not need this if doing it online ??

 

Thanks again

Damian

[PeterG]

Hi Damian

 

I didn't use that as I purchased the Lawpack kit on the left of your screen.

 

Nowhere on FORM N1 was it suggested that I needed to enter when the account was opened.

 

What is of relevance is that you are able to show the Court evidence of what penalty/unfair charges were levied on your account and when.

 

PeterG

[deviousdame]

Thanks Peter,

 

I'll look into that lawpack, although as I'm so far through with my reclaim now I think I'll try and find some text myself to get the claim done...

 

off to look now

 

many thanks

Damian

[deviousdame]

found this which I'm now going to use in my moneyclaim particulars ...

 

I have Account number ******** with the defendant bank which was opened in 1994, which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges over the last 6 years plus the interest they have levied on those charges. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as there

contrary to common law.

 

Further, as a disproportionate penalty there invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977

s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2

(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

 

Halifax have repeatedly declined to justify these charges. The claimant claims interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 31/05/2000 to 21/08/2006 of £566.65 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £ ???

can somebody please confirm that the two dates above in red are ok (I don't know the exact date my account opened and the date of my first charge is over six years ago now so is that still ok?) and I dont know what to put for the daily intrest rate ???

Thanks again for your help

Damian

 

 

[deviousdame]

Bump