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Nationwide/Shoosmiths v me


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They have ticked box "A" for using the mediation service on the first page:)

 

I dont know how that works.. I wonder if the court will make an order for a stay in order for mediation to take place.

 

Very bare ?

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They have ticked box "A" for using the mediation service on the first page:)

 

I dont know how that works.. I wonder if the court will make an order for a stay in order for mediation to take place.

 

Very bare ?

 

I haven't heard anything, I will ring them in the morning to try and get some information. :)

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Wait for the Courts medition service to contact you or the Claimant your AQ and Directions has been forward to the Claimant.They requested mediation in their AQ so let them mediate.;)

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by Andyorch

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OK Andy, I did send the Claimants solicitors a copy of my AQ and Directions when I filed them in Court.

 

Let's mediate then :)

 

Thanks again.

 

Their previous attempts were pretty pathetic werent they ?.. :)

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They were trying to bully me and it wasn't going to happen. :)

 

I have just realised that this gives plenty of time for my SAR from Nationwide to arrive :D

 

 

Excellent, lets hope it arrives before they make an attempt to "negotiate".. at least if you have all the information, you know where you stand. :D

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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I have received a letter from shoosmiths today which is here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/shoosmithsmediation.jpg

 

it states

 

"In order to draw this matter to a conclusion we trust you will now provide us with your response to our letter dated 18 August 2009 so that the parties may narrow the issues."

 

The letter dated 18 August 2009 was the one that stated

 

"If you do not withdraw your Defence within 21 days of receiving this letter then we have our client's instructions to make a summary judgement application to the Court"

 

The full letter from 18 August is in post #18 of this thread.

 

What does "narrow the issues" mean? Do I have issues to narrow?

 

I have a copy of a CCA that does not contain the prescribed terms and a duff default notice.

 

Thanks for any help.

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I have received a letter from shoosmiths today which is here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/shoosmithsmediation.jpg

 

it states

 

"In order to draw this matter to a conclusion we trust you will now provide us with your response to our letter dated 18 August 2009 so that the parties may narrow the issues.":D

 

The letter dated 18 August 2009 was the one that stated

 

"If you do not withdraw your Defence within 21 days of receiving this letter then we have our client's instructions to make a summary judgement application to the Court":eek:

 

The full letter from 18 August is in post #18 of this thread.

 

What does "narrow the issues" mean? Do I have issues to narrow? Play their game and dont defend:wink:

 

I have a copy of a CCA that does not contain the prescribed terms and a duff default notice. And they know that also so please play the game and let us apply for SJ

Thanks for any help.

 

 

Stick to your guns stleonards

Regards

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Oh I am sticking tight Andy :) it was just that I thought they were suggesting therapy to narrow my "issues" :grin:

 

Thanks again.

 

SOunds pretty painful.. I would refuse to have your issues narrowed, if I were you:D

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SOunds pretty painful.. I would refuse to have your issues narrowed, if I were you:D

 

 

Ooooooooh Matron sounds like a script from a Carry On (Carry on Regardless in this case):grin:

 

 

Andy

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Carry on Regardles is fine but I always think it is better to bat the ball back into Shoos court, otherwise they will claim you have not tried to settle the dispute.

 

I suggest a response using the exact words in their letter of 18 August ie along the lines that their client has not yet supplied 'a copy credit agreement in accordance with the Conumer Credit Act'. You may like to add that the issues can be narrowed when their client supplies a CCA and DN.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Carry on Regardles is fine but I always think it is better to bat the ball back into Shoos court, otherwise they will claim you have not tried to settle the dispute.And they have with threats of "If you do not withdraw your Defence within 21 days of receiving this letter then we have our client's instructions to make a summary judgement application to the Court"

 

I suggest a response using the exact words in their letter of 18 August ie along the lines that their client has not yet supplied 'a copy credit agreement in accordance with the Conumer Credit Act'. You may like to add that the issues can be narrowed when their client supplies a CCA and DN.

 

Excellent mediation attempts Im sure:roll:

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi again,

 

I think Shoosmiths haven given up on their mediation lessons.

 

I came home yesterday to find this letter from Eversheds

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/eversheds0001.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/eversheds0002.jpg

 

They apparently have now been instructed to act for the Claimant in place of Shoosmiths.

 

Does this affect what is going on at present? Do I need to do anything about it?

 

Thanks.

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No, I dont think you need to do anything, stleonards.. there appears to be a lot of solicitors changes at the last moment with other CAGers as well.

 

The file should have been passed over when the new solicitor was instructed. Chances are you will probably get a request for an extension while they get themselves organised..

 

:)

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi,

 

I just received this from Eversheds by email;

 

Dear Madam

 

Nationwide Building Society -v- XXXXXX XXXXXX

Claim Number: XXXXXXXX

 

We confirm that we now act for the Nationwide Building Society in the above matter.

 

We note that the agreed stay in proceedings is due to come to an end on 28 October 2009. The Court must be notified by this date of the outcome of that stay.

 

We propose that the proceedings be stayed for a further 7 weeks. We consider that a stay would be prudent in light of the numerous test cases currently progressing through the Mercantile Court in Manchester which deal with many of the same issues as the above matter and are due to be heard on 30 November 2009.

 

The test cases deal with a number of issues relevant to our client’s claim, including:

 

1.Whether a copy agreement given under section 78(1) must have the quality of a photocopy or may the copy be a reproduction;

2.Whether, if there is a breach of section 78(1), a declaration to that effect is appropriate;

3.Whether the document signed by the debtor contains the prescribed terms if they are on a separate sheet attached to or supplied with the piece of paper signed by the debtor; and

The outcome of the test cases will be of direct relevance to this matter as we consider it would save the time and costs of both yourself and our client if the above matter were to be heard with the benefit of the outcome of the current cases and their rulings on some of the common points at issue.

 

Please would you confirm whether you have any objection to the proposed stay.

In the meantime we would like to draw your attention to the recent High Court ruling in the case of McGuffrick -v- Royal Bank of Scotland [2009] EWHC 2386 (Comm). The Court found that the bank’s right to be paid and the debtor’s obligation to pay continues while the bank is not entitled to enforce the credit agreement by virtue of Section 77(4) Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that reporting non-payment and other information to credit reference agencies is not enforcement. This case demonstrates that in the event that the agreement between yourself and our client was unenforceable, which is denied, your obligation to pay would continue and our client remains entitled to report the non-payment of your debt to credit reference agencies.

 

We look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency in relation to the proposed stay. Please contact our xxxxx xxxxx on 0845 497 7745 or xxxxxxxxxx@eversheds.com, by 1.00pm 28 October 2009.

 

We would be grateful if you would direct any correspondence in this matter to our Nottingham address (noted below) until 1 November, after which our Cardiff office (detailed on the Notice dated 15 October) will be dealing with the matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Eversheds LLP

 

Surely this stay is not in my favour? Should I object? I have presented everything asked of me on time and they now want to wait seven weeks to see if they can gain an advantage...

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Aha... they have had plenty of time to advise you of this. This test case has been known for some while.

 

This is not the first solicitor to try this one on. I dont know how you would respond. So I have alerted the site team for you.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have just realised that I have an N149 AQ (Small claims track) for this case that has to be filed in two days time and I have not previously filled one of these in.

 

The case has been transferred to my local County Court.

 

The CPR produced this agreement that I linked in the first post of this thread

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwide1.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwide2.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwide3.jpg

 

and these templates in answer to the request for a copy of the DN (which I never received originally) they contain no information about me whatsoever.

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwidenotice1.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwidenotice2.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/nationwidenotice3.jpg

 

Am I right in thinking that I can use the Draft Order for Directions modified with my information, from here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

 

to respond?

 

Thank you.

 

have you not noticed that the default notice is in fact a Termination Notice?

it demands payment of the full outstanding balance to rectify the breach!!

 

or are my eyes getting tired this time of night!!

 

Nope, your eyesight is good DD:grin: They do ask for the full balance in the DN and also within 14 days. Thereby not allowing the correct time for remedy in any case.

 

IMHO, the Default notice is by far the stronger of the two arguments and any stay will only resolve issues surrounding the agreement (that is if the court decision goes the Creditors way).

 

They are being rather cute in trying to use the McGuffick case. Firstly it didnt set a precedent and the facts in the case are entirely different. They are trying to unsettle you.

 

It doesnt look as though anyone is going to be able to offer advice in respect of whether you object to the stay or not.

 

I am just going to have a search and see if I can find another situation similar and see if they were advised what to do.

 

BRB.

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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it seems we are all gettting these letters from nationwide- perhaps their original lawyers dont like the taste of their arguments

 

mine were to do with

 

a/ unenforceable agreement

b/ defective DN (unlawful rescission- claimed the whole balance of the account to rectify a breach )

c/ unlawful charges

#

none of which i am aware are up for review so i rejected their offer of a stay

 

I today recieved a letter on behalf of nationwide,basically it says that they have now asigned a new solicitor,& they also ask for the court date to be put on hold for 2 months,,,mainly so they can see what happens with the outcome of the Manchester test cases.

 

I would be obliged if someone could advise or comment,thanks....why are Nationwide, changing solicitors at this stage....why is the outcome, of the Manchester test trials, so important to them, that they want the trial delayed for 2 months? I have phoned the courts, and they have told me, the hearing will go ahead, on the original date, due to me applying for summary judgement, unless, I want it changed.

 

This was the letter i recieved:-

 

Dear Sir

We are now instructed to act for Nationwide Building Society in the above matter and enclose, by way of service, a copy of the Notice of Change of Solicitor which we have sent to the Court.

 

We also enclose a copy of our letter of today's date to the Court. As you will see we have proposed, in the interests of justice and both parties in this case (to reduce costs and narrow the issues), that the proceedings in this matter be stayed. The reason for the proposed stay is primarily to await the outcome of various test cases which are currently underway, the outcome of which are direct relevance to your client's claim.

 

We would be grateful if you would confirm whether or not you have any objections to the proposal that the hearing listed for **********2009 be vacated and that the proceedings be stayed for a period of 2 months.

We look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours faithfully

*************

 

They also sent this letter to the courts:-

 

Dear Madam

 

We confirm that we now act for the claimant in the above matter. We enclose a Notice of Change of Solicitor which we would be grateful if you would place on the Court file.

 

We note that the Court has given notice of the hearing of the defendant's application to strike out our client's claim, which is listed for *********2009 at **********Unfortunately a copy of the defendant's application does not appear to have been attached to the Court's notice dated ******2009. We respectfully request that the Court forward to us a copy of the missing document.

 

We propose that the hearing listed for ******2009 be vacated and that the claim be stayed for a period of two months (*******2009). We consider that a stay would be prudent in light of the numberous test cases currently progressing in the Mercantile Court in Manchester and which are due to be heard before *******QC on *******2009

 

The test cases deal with a number of issues relevant to our client's claim, including :

1. Wheather a copy of agreement given under section 78(1) must have the quality of a photocopy or may the copy be a reproduction;

2. Whether a creditors breach of section 78(1) gives rise to an unfair relationship;

3. Whether, if there is a breach of section 78(1), a declaration to that effect is appropriate;

4. Whether the document signed by the debtor contains the prescribed terms if they are on a separate sheet attached to or supplied with the piece of paper signed by the debtor; and

5. Whether a failure to show that there was a document signed by the debtor containing the prescribed terms of itself give rise to an unfair relationship.

 

The outcome of the test cases will be of direct relevance to this matter and we consider it in the interest of justice and the parties in this case (to reduce costs and narrow the hearing of the defendant's application for Applying The Court To strike Out The Claim (see copy attached) will take place at *******on the *******2009 at ******** **********Civil Justice Centre.

 

 

Stleonards, it looks as though the two CAGers above also received the same communication. As diddydicky points out, the issues in his case are different to those within the test case, so he rejected the offer of a stay. As already mentioned, I think you have other and stronger arguments regardind the Default notice.

 

The choice to object or not now rests with you. Having already had one stay imposed on you, this seems very unfair that they have now changed solicitors and are intending to impose another. :mad:

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Stleonards, it looks as though the two CAGers above also received the same communication. As diddydicky points out, the issues in his case are different to those within the test case, so he rejected the offer of a stay. As already mentioned, I think you have other and stronger arguments regardind the Default notice.

 

The choice to object or not now rests with you. Having already had one stay imposed on you, this seems very unfair that they have now changed solicitors and are intending to impose another. :mad:

 

if you re read the letter it does NOT ask for a stay due to the other cases being on hold- it cleverly states that the reason for the stay is for them to study the files and seek settlement opportunities (or similar)

 

it THEN goes on to talk about awaiting other decisions-

 

crafty or what

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