EGG>>A Quandry - now Marlin

[ajs444]

Well have had EGG card for quite a few years, they have told me there will not be a re-issue of card and I should continue paying them the Direct Debit till balance gone. I SAR'd them and received copies of statements, and charges come to about half of what I owe them.

I have found my original CCA and it is the usual EGG agreement and it does not comply under Consumer Credit Act, do I ask them for their copy just to keep them busy? or do I send Account in Dispute letter?

Any sensible suggestions?

[seriously fed up]

"do I ask them for their copy" - oh yes, and not just to keep them busy, but on the off chance that they cant find it (and whatever you do dont own up to having a copy ). Then the account in dispute letter.

Then you can go down the same route as several other here. Its a bit like "Waiting for Godot".

[ajs444]

Hi SFU, we seem to keep bumping into each other!!!

Will send SAR this weekend and let them get busy trying to find CCA.

[seriously fed up]

yes and lets hope for a similar result

[ajs444]

Well having forgot about this crowd for a number of years, they have suddenly popped up to the surface again, like a lot of things that tend to float.

 

Debt has now been assigned to Marlin Financial Services by Barclaycard.

 

Will have to get default charges plus Interest in Restitution worked out, should clear balance.

[ajs444]

Have asked Marlin to confirm the account they are collecting. the Account Number supplied by Barclays/Marlin does not even resemble the EGG one.

[seriously fed up]

when you say "assigned", do you mean that Marlin have bought it? or are they acting as agents for Barclaycard?

One other thing - I note the date this correspondence began was August 2009. Bearing in mind that debts are statute barred here after five years, how long is it since you last acknowledged the debt (ie paid them anything). I wrote to them in November 2008 with a SAR request, so I would reckon that I havent acknowledged since about the middle of that year. If it comes to it I will SAR them again, but we must be on countdown for mine being statute barred. You maybe want to think about the same course of action if you can?

Its quite discouraging when something you thought had gone away comes back again. Sorry to hear that AJS

[ken100464]

Reading other forums there looks like a mass assignment has happened. Lots of Marlin letters out today.

[seriously fed up]

does seem that way

[Hopster]

when you say "assigned", do you mean that Marlin have bought it? or are they acting as agents for Barclaycard?

One other thing - I note the date this correspondence began was August 2009. Bearing in mind that debts are statute barred here after five years, how long is it since you last acknowledged the debt (ie paid them anything). I wrote to them in November 2008 with a SAR request, so I would reckon that I havent acknowledged since about the middle of that year. If it comes to it I will SAR them again, but we must be on countdown for mine being statute barred. You maybe want to think about the same course of action if you can?

Its quite discouraging when something you thought had gone away comes back again. Sorry to hear that AJS

They have taken it over. Barclaycard confirmed this by letter in the same envelope - debt assigned - account closed at barclaycard. September 2008 wass when the account was terminated with 161,000 others by Egg . I have paid them nothing since. Does statute barring apply after 5 years, even if you have received letters from DCAs etc, ?

[ken100464]

Apex seem to have woken up on old Egg accounts aswell.

 

Something oviously spooked them both. Last chance to obtain paperwork before Canada Square start saying Nein?

 

Have seen an Aktiv Capital thread for an old Egg account this week admitting there is no paperwork anymore. Letter was worded strangely. As in we cannot get any paperwork from the original creditor anymore.

 

All other posts are confirming account details dont marry up but last known balance is about right.

 

Hope you guys get to the finish line ok.

[seriously fed up]

As long as you havent acknowledged the debt (ie paid them anything) then after five years (in Scotland), the debt doesnt disappear, but it cant be enforced at Court - its barred. However if they get their papers into court within five years then that resets the clock.

Also to address Ken's point, no paperwork = no chance. So if Canada Square is playing silly buggers then I would suggest in the first instance a s78 application (a SAR gets you more, but while they reply to the s78 they cant enforce).

My own view would be that if Egg could have enforced these accounts then they would have. God knows they needed the money.

[renegadeimp]

Send a CCA request. It looks like the debt is unenforceable. Thats why EGG didnt do anything a couple of years ago, and then you heard nothing until now.

 

Also, as mentioned above, when was the last time you made payment to the debt or acknowledged the debt in writing?

[Hopster]

As long as you havent acknowledged the debt (ie paid them anything) then after five years (in Scotland), the debt doesnt disappear, but it cant be enforced at Court - its barred. However if they get their papers into court within five years then that resets the clock.

Also to address Ken's point, no paperwork = no chance. So if Canada Square is playing silly buggers then I would suggest in the first instance a s78 application (a SAR gets you more, but while they reply to the s78 they cant enforce).

My own view would be that if Egg could have enforced these accounts then they would have. God knows they needed the money.

 

 

I think that statute barring it may be 6 years in England

[renegadeimp]

I think that statute barring it may be 6 years in England

 

[Hopster]

I cannot believe that there are not literally many thousands of disatified Egg customers who have refused to pay anything. Certainly a lawyer wrote to me afdter barclaycard took the account over, and I quote c" Barclaycard have asserted that they have complied with the Section 78 etc, but the document they have forwarded is only "generic Terms and Conditions" and does not comply. They could not confirm that all the "prescribed " terms were provided to me.

Anyway is there anyone out there whop has had the balance written off ?

[ajs444]

I believe last payment to them was August 2009, have been chased by umpteen DCA's since then with no court action, as other poster says letter of assignment received today along with letter from Barclaycard, basically saying they have washed their hands of the account.

 

Have e-mailed marlin as account number is totally fictitious.

 

Have previously asked them for refund of default charges, they dismissed that, so will start annoying them now.

[Hopster]

I believe last payment to them was August 2009, have been chased by umpteen DCA's since then with no court action, as other poster says letter of assignment received today along with letter from Barclaycard, basically saying they have washed their hands of the account.

 

Have e-mailed marlin as account number is totally fictitious.

 

Have previously asked them for refund of default charges, they dismissed that, so will start annoying them now.

 

 

What is the point in annoying them ? why email them to tell them that the acount number is wrong ? Are you sure that Marlin have washed their hands of the account already ? How can you be really sure ? The lion sleeps but he may not sleep forever.

[ken100464]

I wouldnt contact them at all.

 

By emailing you have given them a live contact on what is very old debt. They have found you and to have got the letter they have a live address and via the email they have a live email.

[ajs444]

After my success with reclaim of charges against Capital One, with interest in restitution at 24.4% they would probably be due me around £1000+ and that is too good to allow them to sleep.

[Mistermind]

After my success with reclaim of charges against Capital One, with interest in restitution at 24.4% they would probably be due me around £1000+ and that is too good to allow them to sleep.

 

Have you declared to Egg and cohorts that you regard the account described "terminated" by Egg letter as legally unenforceable?

 

If you claim the lawful part of the account balance as null and void,

do you then claim the unlawful part (penalty charges) of the balance to be NOT null and void?

 

Is Egg supposed to refund you cash for unlawful penalty charges on an account the liability for which you now repudiate?

 

If Small Claims Court were to rule in favour of penalty charges refund, SCC would be effectively levying a punitive fine on Egg on principle, but SCC is not empowered to levy fines. At most Egg would reverse the penalty charges plus interest on your account. If the credit refund is exceeded by the debit balance outstanding the outcome would be academic, if you repudiate the debit balance of any size.

 

If you do NOT repudiate the debit balance then it is a different story. The balance becomes payable, and Egg will be required to refund penalty charges. As for reclaim of penalty charges imposed before 2007 six years ago, someone else could advise.

[ajs444]

Even with Scottish Small claims at £3000, my claim would clear the balance and return to me £1000+, the Limitation and Prescription Act would let me go back at least 6 years from the date I became aware of the charges (and notified EGG) ie 2009.

 

Barclaycard have refunded me 6 years of charges already on a Goldfish card witout putting up a fight.

[seriously fed up]

Well that's me got mine too. Really annoying thing is when something that you thought was well behind you, rears its ugly head again. I have looked out the last letter I sent to Egg with my reasons for non-payment (it runs to two pages btw), so I am armed and ready. However, two points

 

1. do these guys realise that statute barring in Scotland is five years (six in England for anyone coming across this)?
   
2. Ajs you refer to the account numbers being wrong. I suspect with great humility that you might incorrect here since the number quoted to me is a Barclay account number. Now, what has happened is that Egg flogged the credit card portfolio to Barclays, who then sent out new agreements which, normally would include new (Barclays) cards, but for those of us cast out by Egg, they didnt send out a new card, just unsigned "new agreements" on which we did precisely no borrowing. Now, if I am right this is going to cause them all manner of problems. I think (I would need to look) I do have the agreement that Barclays sent me, but (obviously) I never signed it. This the usual procedure when credit cards get transferred which has always struck me as a wee bit suspect since the 74 Act is quite clear that the agreement should be signed by the borrower. But that's their problem. However, in this case I would submit that Marlin face a particularly difficult problem because ordinarily, if we raise difficulties about a copy of the agreement (a s78 request for instance) they would go to the original lender, but that isnt Barclays. To get a copy of th signed agreement Marlin will have to
   

 

• go to Barclays with the account number, but that wont get them anything with my signature on it, so
  
• they will have to get Barclays to dig out the Egg number corresponding to my Barclays number (if you are still with me), and then
  
• go to Egg and ask them for a copy of the signed agreement
  

That is going to be time-consuming and could go seriously wrong at two points - have Barclays records of the corresponding account numbers for the Egg accounts they bought (and can they be bothered?). If not, then it would seem unlikely that Marlin are going to get much joy out of what remains of Egg. But it can also go wrong at the final stage - have Egg still got copies of the signed agreements? And of course, no signed paperwork, no order!

Just something to think about

[ajs444]

Had a reply from Marlin by snail mail this morning, which was pretty quick considering the number of letters they must have sent out.

 

They tell me the account number is the new one (Barclaycard) since they took over EGG cards, the account being terminated 2010.

 

Marlin do not have a copy of the agreement but are now approaching Barclays to get a copy?????

 

Seems a strange situation, would have thought Marlin would have all documentation at their fingertips.

 

SFU, I never received a new agreement from Barclays with my new account number on it, I had only received letters signed by a Mr Mcweeney regarding the transfer from EGG to Barclaycard, think there will be a lot of twists and turns on the path ahead.

[seriously fed up]

AJS, you are quite right. Just dug it out - all I got was a "Welcome to Barclaycard" letter (also from Mr McWeeney - probably the same one), which tells me the account has been transferred from Egg and that "Now we're wrting to give you your new Barclaycard terms and conditions which will take effect from ..." and goes on to tell me that I wont be gettting a card from them "owing to the status of (my) account, and as result, not all of these changes will affect (me)". This is followed by a section (just over a page) headed "Changes to your terms and conditions" - tells me the min payment will no longer include repayment protection insurance; that interest is clause 6 of Barclaycard Conditions - but not what it is. Ther are a number of other sections - default fees will "only" be £12, balance transfers, other changes etc. However its pretty clear that on their own - and I dont have a copy of any enclosed "booklets" referred to in the letter (could it be that us peasants who werent getting card never got the booklet?) - would be enforceable for any number of reasons

 

1. no rate of interest
   
2. not even a reference to the amount of credit
   
3. no specific details about repayments other than that payment protection wont be included in the minimum amoutn
   
4. and of course, there is no signature and no indication that I have accepted these less than trivial changes to my T&Cs with Egg.
   

I actually have a bit of form on this. I had a Citibank card which was the result of a transfer by an outfit called People's Bank (American). Citibank sold it to 1st Credit, but could never get a signed document that would satisfy the Consumer Credit Act from People's Bank. One of the things that came out from Carey a couple of years ago was that to enforce a lender has to go all the way back in the paper chase. Therefore I would quote the relevant section of Waksman's judgement there which is para 234 (his findings right at the end) that "(4) If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms". Now what Marlin seem to be saying to you AJS is that the original agreement is the one with Barclays, when quite transparently it was not - not even 1st Credit tried that one with me. And that, for the avoidance of doubt is, as I read it, is for s78, not the much more demanding requirements of s61 1 a, which require evidence of a signature on a document with the prescribed terms.

Therefore I think when they say that they are approaching Barclays for a copy, let them do that, and then tell them this wasnt the original agreement - it was with Egg, and if I am right they will have a heck of a job getting anything.