Contractual interest?

[chezt]

Hi Glenn ... king of contractual interest! I have a few Q's ...

 

1. I'm preparing particulars of claim for my RBS Mastercard & am claiming contractual Interest ... I'm a bit stuck on the wording for this ... can you help?

 

2. Do I have to put about accepting Stat 8% as an alternative?

 

3. How do I calculate daily rate for comp cont int for my claim form? I can just change the date on my spreadsheet & work out the diff from one day to the next if this would work??

 

Been reading through your Abbey claim for clues but that was some time ago & I know how things change.

 

Thanks in advance

[bill-k]

Chezt - sorry, you've got me again !! If I may, I'll give you my answers until Glenn gets back. I think he might be at the CAG booze-up tonite. I recall him threatening to turn up in his torn leathers (he's a bit of a biker I believe) - or was that another posing pouch & leather flat 'at being threatened ? If so, then I'm really glad I couldn't make it down there to the Blue Oyster Club tonite !! Anyway, Glenn deserves an opportunity to take a pop at me, so here's my answers:-

 

1. I used Mindzai's particulars, as posted in "A New Way..." - but check wording, as this was for a current account, I believe.

 

2. No, you don't have to, but I recommend you do, as will Mindzai. For a credit card, I think you will just have one "alternative" - and that is the Statutory 8%. I was dubious about this at first, as I thought it looked like you were "wimping out." But to the court, it seems this is a respected method of offering a simple choice, should the bank successfully argue against contractual.

 

3. That's what I have done - it gives a slightly lower result than trying to claim compound daily in the POC., but the difference is peanuts - and it's to the defendant's advantage. I've had no complaints, although it hasn't been tested to destruction, yet !!

 

(4.) You really must kick that ShAbbey habit !!!

[chezt]

Cheers 4 your help again Bill ...will go look for that thread to chck out the POC ... must get it complete to proceed ASAP - NOWT in post again Saturday!

 

Glad my way of thinking will do for calculatng daily interest ... not really into long drawn out calculations! 8)

 

U didn't make it to the CAG xmas do then? Been lookin at the piccies Bookworm posted & they're fab! Nice to put a few faces to names .... I've seen the Guinea Pig!! :grin:

 

The SHabbey is my next hit ... Already started on the Credit card ... just not added a link yet ... The Joint account will be our 'biggie'!!

[chezt]

. I used Mindzai's particulars, as posted in "A New Way..." - but check wording, as this was for a current account, I believe.

 

quote]

 

Phew .. don't spose u have a copy u could PM me do ya ... that thread has HUNDRED'S of posts ... it'll take me days to trawl it!! Don't worry if not I can go hunting :o

[bill-k]

. I used Mindzai's particulars, as posted in "A New Way..." - but check wording, as this was for a current account, I believe.

 

quote]

 

Phew .. don't spose u have a copy u could PM me do ya ... that thread has HUNDRED'S of posts ... it'll take me days to trawl it!! Don't worry if not I can go hunting :o

Of course, mate, will do - thoughtless of me.

[chezt]

Been 'playing' with POC wording to include claiming contractual int with stat 8% as an alternative ....

 

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxx with the Defendant, opened around xxxx. 2. Since xx.xx.xx the Defendant applied charges and interest in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3. Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4. Claimant contends: (a) The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b) The Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimant claims: (a) return of the amounts debited of £xxx.xx; (b) Compound Contractual of xx.x% - £xxx.xx continuing at xx.xx % until judgment or settlement at a daily rate of £0.xx; I claim in the alternative Interest per S.69 County Courts Act 1984 of 8% (£xxx.xx giving a total of £xxx.xx £0.xxdaily rate) 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. 7. Costs allowed by the Court.

 

 

Comments anyone ... I could do with getting moving on this one as the deadline is well overdue ... they've had LONG ENOUGH!!

 

Also, I've only done one court action so far n I used MCOL ... with the extra wording this prob won't fit .. is there anything I need to know about using the N1 version?

[pict]

Sorry to butt in but I will be ready to start court action on Monday. The CC is BOS and they have list the interest on statement as

Dec 2001 at 13.9 pa to May 2006 at 20.65 pa.

First question are these the rates you are advising to use and is it only fair to use the lower or average of the two.

[chezt]

Sorry to butt in but I will be ready to start court action on Monday. The CC is BOS and they have list the interest on statement as

Dec 2001 at 13.9 pa to May 2006 at 20.65 pa.

First question are these the rates you are advising to use and is it only fair to use the lower or average of the two.

 

 

hi there - it really is up to you what rate you use on your claim but the general opinion/advice is to use the current interest rate - so if that's 20.65% then go with that I'd say

[pict]

Cheers Chezt I'm starting to feel confident now and I think I ready to start court action.

[chezt]

Cheers Chezt I'm starting to feel confident now and I think I ready to start court action.

 

Good news ... keep reading through the FAQ's & as many posts similar to your claims as you can to build up yoyr knowledge & confidence further ... it helps loads to familiarise yourself with the whole process and see how others are getting along with their claims - kinda helps to know what to expect and makes it all less scary if you know wot I mean!

 

Anyway, good luck and lets hope it's not too long before you get your money back

[bill-k]

Pict - yeah, echo what Chezt says. Don't hurry this and read up as much as possible. It really gives you confidence (as I think you're finding !).

 

Have you got your spreadsheet filled in ? (sounds like you're in the process, now)

 

Have you sent your Prelim & LBA ? If not, do those first before thinking too much about court action.

 

But make sure you are satisfied that you know exactly what you are claiming from the word go, and that what you are claiming is correct.

 

All the best, mate !!

[bill-k]

Chez, your POC seem to have been shrunk down drastically. If using MCOL forces you to do this, then I'm not sure it's the right way to go about this. I haven't done MCOL myself, but I believe people generally send their POC separately. Mindzai's POC took up a whole side of A4 for my claims, so I've always printed them on a separate sheet to my N1. Hopefully, MCOL will allow this ?

 

Not been there myself, so any other input would help, here. Anybody ?

[pict]

Cheers bill-k Spead sheet completed, Prelim and LBA all posted. I will now check again that all the figures are accurate although I'm quite confident the total is correct. I'll be working on the court form this weekend.

Thanks again

[bill-k]

Pict - Yeah, it looks like you've done your homework and got the headache then, mate !!

 

Between LBA and SCC claim is the last chance you get to make any changes (without a lot of hassle, anyway). So, yes, DO check your figures.

 

You probably don't need to hear this, but I need to ask you. You're claiming Contractual Interest, and you now have an annual rate (as posted earlier), which you have entered into your spreadsheet. OK.

 

1. Is your spreadsheet definitely calculating this interest as Compound Interest ? (as opposed to the Statutory 8% interest, which is Simple Interest). It is important to know for sure, as just applying the higher annual rate is not (albeit arguably) strictly contractual.

 

2. As you have only recently decided what rate of contractual interest to apply, then I assume that neither your prelim, nor your LBA informed them of the amount of interest you are claiming. If that is so, then I'm not sure you ought to send your legal claim in to court until you have given them the chance to see exactly how much you will be claiming from them in court. Although Statutory interest is only claimed through the court, contractual has to be claimed initially directly from the other party(s) to the contract (the bank), along with the charges. If I've got this right, then you might be advised to send a further LBA with the complete figures attached.

 

I hope that's of use, mate. If not, then apologies. But I feel better for having asked you !!

 

Bill.

[pict]

Sorry bill-k got a bit lost there.

The spread sheet I used is the simple spread sheet in the libary section of the site. To change the interest I just changed the 8% to 20.65%. I don't think this spread sheet calculates compound interest but I'm not 100% sure.

Is this the correct sheet to use?

 

On the next point this is the statement in my LBA letter

 

 

I calculate that you have taken £462.00

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

the 14 days of the LBA ends this weekend, should I now send a second letter stating the interest will be 20.65% then give then another 14 days to respond.

 

sorry to be a pain....

[Guest bong]

Chez, your POC seem to have been shrunk down drastically. If using MCOL forces you to do this, then I'm not sure it's the right way to go about this. I haven't done MCOL myself, but I believe people generally send their POC separately. Mindzai's POC took up a whole side of A4 for my claims, so I've always printed them on a separate sheet to my N1. Hopefully, MCOL will allow this ?

 

Not been there myself, so any other input would help, here. Anybody ?

 

Morning Bill, Morning Chez,

 

Me thinks the only way to claim contractual interest is with the N1 form. With MCOL you could send particulars of claim separately, as you do with the schedule, but its messy, you would need to serve it yourself on the defendant because MCOL will only put it on your file if you send it to them.

 

So its N1 which is not so bad, you can post it to the court if you can't get along there in person. And if you're going to be using the N1 form there are lots of good examples about. Even for claims without contractual interest the MCOL template reads a bit like a Mayday message and it gives the bank the opportunity to add delays by asking for the claim to be struck out or to be better particularised. Chez I'd take another look at Mindzais particulars (sounds rude doesn't it:oops:) or there are some other good examples out there. I think the aim is to make as good a case as you can from the outset, so that they can't say they don't have enough information, and to make it quite individual / different in some way from the norm, so that they have to read it and respond to each point you make. If they don't do this there may be an opportunity to ask for the defence to be struck out. My own contractual interest claim came to two extra A4 sheets but it did have extra stuff in it about the Limitation Act.

 

I hope its not too late for you..

[Guest bong]

Oh yeah, forgot to say Chez, make sure you give/send the court 3 copies of the N1 form and any supplementary sheets and schedules.

[chezt]

Hi Bill & Bong (PMSL sounds like the flowerpot men errr persons .. must be PC there !)

 

the POC I posted on here was my effort before Bill kindly found n PM'd me a copy of Mindzai's which is what I'm currently working on .... I will try & finish this today as I've got more than one claim at this stage now that I'm claiming contractual interest on .... Am I ok to post it on here for a quick 'once over' when I'm done?

 

Bill (bless him) already pointed out about 3 copies too... think I need to stock up on ink n paper!!

 

Cheers for your input peeps ..... SO MUCH APPRECIATED

[chezt]

the 14 days of the LBA ends this weekend, should I now send a second letter stating the interest will be 20.65% then give then another 14 days to respond.

 

sorry to be a pain....

 

If you are changing the amount of your claim then really the answer is yes, it would be wise to send an amended letter giving further time for the bank to respond. It's extra time now but will hopefully show further down the line to the courts that you have been fair IYKWIM.

[Guest bong]

ok great. yeah post it up and we'll have a butchers

[Guest bong]

The spread sheet I used is the simple spread sheet in the libary section of the site. To change the interest I just changed the 8% to 20.65%. I don't think this spread sheet calculates compound interest but I'm not 100% sure.

Is this the correct sheet to use?

 

agree with what chez said. also you just need to be aware that if you use the spreadsheet you have been, you will not be claiming compound interest, it will be simple interest using the contractual rate.

 

Compound interest is likely to make a significant difference. I'd say if you're going back to the drawing board anyway, why not see about using a different spreadie.

[chezt]

ok great. yeah post it up and we'll have a butchers

 

ok here's what I've done so far - feel free to pick n poke!

 

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxx ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened around 1999.

2. Since DATE the Defendant applied numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges applied to the Account, as outlined in the attached schedule, are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £xxx.xx and interest charged thereon in the sum of £xx.xx;

b) Court costs;

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of four letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £xx.xx, as set out in the attached list of costs.

d) the Claimant claims contractual interest at an annual rate of xx.xx% compounded daily, from the date of each transaction to DATE of £xxx.xx, as set out in the attached list of charges. The claimant further claims interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £0.xx per day.

The Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s standard interest rate for purchases that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from DATE TO DATE, which is £xxx.xx and continuing until payment or the date of judgment at a daily rate of £0.xx.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

 

[Guest bong]

gordon bennet that was quick. let me grab a cuppa

[chezt]

gordon bennet that was quick. let me grab a cuppa

 

I'm on a day off n my lil 'un's just gone down for morning nap ... makin the most of it!! Was up last night workin on it so had it prepared.

 

Cuppa sounds good ... frothy cappuchino n a choccie biccie here I come ....

[bill-k]

Hi Pict - Sorry was away, but it looks like you're a hit with the lovely helpful ladies here !! Yeah, they've said what I would have - only better.

 

Please DO NOT push your claim any further until you have got your figures completely sorted. You seem to know what's what with your sheet, and the compound formula is a common oversight, I think. If you know how to change the maths function in your compound interest column, you can probably stick with the sheet you have. I ended up doing that myself, so we've got that much in common !! Bong or Chezt will probably beat me to it, but I'll post up the formula you need later.

 

As the ladies suggest, send a further LBA later, when you're happy with your figures. You can always post up a coupla examples and someone here will check them for you. (For a commission !! ) Just kiddin' .

 

Just come back to here & folks here will check stuff for you. Glenn will be pleased his thread's being properly used again !!!