Court Claim received - Cohens/CL finance vs sue4daz - NEED HELP PLEASE!!!!

[sue4daz]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, but have been a keen reader of CAG for many many months.

 

YESTERDAY, my husband received a notice of assignment from Cohens - it seems the usual one from what I have read on here - assignment/court claim notification all rolled into one letter.

 

TODAY, received the court papers from CCBC at Northhampton. Having read this forum all day!!! - I think I have grasped the fact that we may be able to defend this claim or attempt to.

 

The reason for this being is that Santander (debenhams mastercard) have not served us a default notice - they have threatened to twice once in February and once in march, but I haven't got a default notice (I am pretty much sure I have kept everything since november last year) IS THIS COMMON PRACTICE?? Can this be enough for a defence???

 

What exactly do I need to do to initiate the proceedings of defending it?? I am going to send the letter to Cohens tomorrow asking for the documents - using the CPR18 letter on here.

How do I tackle the court papers - what exactly do I need to put on there. I know its my husbands, but I will be guiding him along!!!

 

Brief details on the account - have not been able to pay since november, had a couple of letters from Viking in May - passed back to debenhams. Received a statement from them dated the 7th August giving an amount to pay by 1st September and then received the notice of assignment yesterday from Cohens.

 

The debt is just over £2k the POC'S are as follows:

The claimants claim is for the sum of £2xxx.xx being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the defendant and Santander cards UK limited under ref xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and assigned to the claimant on the 12th August 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The defendant has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon defendant pursuant to section87(1) of the the consumer credit act 1974.

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement the claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 17.460% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 1.16

Hope I have included what you need to know and I hope someone can help us in the right direction. I must admit when it comes to the defence/case law and so forth I will really need someones help as even though I have read a number of documents on here its going over my head at the moment.

 

May thanks in advance - looing forward to hearing from someone

 

Sue

[sue4daz]

Just found - its not my first post!!!!! Its my 3rd:)

[Luxxinterior]

Just found - its not my first post!!!!! Its my 3rd:)

Oh dear... the GE money/Santander/ Viking/ Cohens rollercoaster again!! I know it well!

When you cpr them, they will reply that they are not obliged to provide you with the documentation and that they will do so on order from the court!!

 

My wife and I have 3-4 cases currently with these. After the first response to my CPR request, I did not bother sending any more...i just submitted defences straight away!!

I submitted my defence for the first of our cases with these monkeys over a month ago. They still have not submitted a response to my defence, and by the end of this week the case will be stayed if they do not respond!

 

Seems to be their nature...all bark and no bite, although I will be able to confirm this at the end of the week lol:-D

[Luxxinterior]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, but have been a keen reader of CAG for many many months.

 

YESTERDAY, my husband received a notice of assignment from Cohens - it seems the usual one from what I have read on here - assignment/court claim notification all rolled into one letter.

 

TODAY, received the court papers from CCBC at Northhampton. Having read this forum all day!!! - I think I have grasped the fact that we may be able to defend this claim or attempt to.

 

The reason for this being is that Santander (debenhams mastercard) have not served us a default notice - they have threatened to twice once in February and once in march, but I haven't got a default notice (I am pretty much sure I have kept everything since november last year) IS THIS COMMON PRACTICE?? Can this be enough for a defence???

 

What exactly do I need to do to initiate the proceedings of defending it?? I am going to send the letter to Cohens tomorrow asking for the documents - using the CPR18 letter on here.

How do I tackle the court papers - what exactly do I need to put on there. I know its my husbands, but I will be guiding him along!!!

 

Brief details on the account - have not been able to pay since november, had a couple of letters from Viking in May - passed back to debenhams. Received a statement from them dated the 7th August giving an amount to pay by 1st September and then received the notice of assignment yesterday from Cohens.

 

The debt is just over £2k the POC'S are as follows:

The claimants claim is for the sum of £2xxx.xx being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the defendant and Santander cards UK limited under ref xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and assigned to the claimant on the 12th August 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The defendant has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon defendant pursuant to section87(1) of the the consumer credit act 1974.

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement the claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 17.460% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 1.16

 

Hope I have included what you need to know and I hope someone can help us in the right direction. I must admit when it comes to the defence/case law and so forth I will really need someones help as even though I have read a number of documents on here its going over my head at the moment.

 

May thanks in advance - looing forward to hearing from someone

 

Sue

 

Hi Sue...

Are you able to post, minus your personal details, account numbers etc, the Consumer Credit Agreement referred to?

Their particular of claims are the same every time.

 

Have you sent your acknowledgement of service yet?

[GhostDebt]

Hi Sue4Daz.

Quick questions.

Did you receive a Letter Before Action?

Did you receive a default notice from Santander?

What is the date on the claim form?

What year is the account from?

 

I would suggest sending the CPR request letter even if they respond saying they are not obliged to reply as it starts a paper trail and gives you further proof of their behaviour when it comes to the later stages.

 

Send all letters recorded for proof of postage and proof of delivery.

Do not hand sign the letters.

 

Regards

[sue4daz]

Many thanks for your replies - very much appreciated.

 

Yes the rollercoaster again, although I'm trying not to be too presumptious, there are definately some cowboy characteristics from what I have read. I have read your thread Luxxinterior regarding your case with them and wish you luck. I dont actually have a copy of the CCA - the card was taken out in 2006 in store. From what I can gather they 'should' attach the documents as detailed in the POC with the claim.

 

GhostDebt - I received no letter titled 'Letter before Action'. I'm assuming this should come from Cohens or CL Finance? I have not received any correspondance from CL Finance at all - just the NOA from Cohens yesterday incorporating the court claim aswell dated 13th August and then the Court Claim dated 17th August.

I have not received a default notice from Santander (GE money). They have threatened this twice but never received it. I would have kept it as I have everything else!! I thought it a little strange that they sent me a monthly statement on 7th August with a request to pay the minimum by 1st september and then sold the debt on the 12th August!!

 

Letter will go recorded tomorrow to Cohens - unsigned

 

I have sent the Acknowledgement of Service through the online service. I see it is 33 days from the date on the claim form that my defence needs to be submitted - can I do that online??

 

Many thanks again

 

Regards

 

Sue

 

Obviously all this is for my OH - who will have to read up on all this in fine detail seen as it is him who will need to go to court - possibly..

[GhostDebt]

As I understand it, because it has come from the bulk centre they do not have to attach documents however there is nothing wrong with pointing out the fact they haven't provided any documents.

plus a letter from them saying they 'are not obliged to comply' with your cpr request is always a bonus..

 

Are there any penalty charges on the account?

 

Yes you can submit the defence online, but the word/character count is limited.

 

Any questions just ask and someone should be along to help.

 

p.s what month 2006? as the CCA was changed in that year and the rules surrounding the enforceability of the agreements changed.

 

Please do plenty of reading around the forums to get some idea of the types of holding defences used and also post it up here for comments.

 

Regards

[42man]

The interest rate claimed in the POC's is also denied them.....One of the lines of your defence will be -

 

The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to recover interest at a rate of 17.46% per annum on unpaid sums due for the price of goods supplied by the Claimant to the Defendant. It is denied that such a rate of interest represents a reasonably accurate assessment of the loss sustained by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers the rate of interest is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

As for the CPR read this carefully and edit and send recorded to the opposing solicitors

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 statements for the duration of the agreement

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[sue4daz]

Hi guys,

Got the usual reply from Cohens this morning stating that they do not have to reply to the CPR 31.14 request.

 

So need to start preparing our defence. I have started reading through the CPR on the justice website and feel that I know more about it.

 

At present, I can only (truly) contest the fact that I have not received a default notice and having seen a few images of them on here, they are not valid due to the date not being properly recorded on them.

 

I plan to read through some defences that people have made on here. Am I right in thinking I need to be going for an embarassed defence?

 

And what should I be doing about the fact they refuse to disclose any imformation they have (or dont have!!!)

 

GHOSTDEBT - the agreement was taken out in sept or Oct 2006. There are penalty charges on the account.

 

Also forgot to mention that on the 7th July we received a letter stating that they were not going to reissue a new card once the existing one had expired following a review of all of their accounts. Not sure if this has any bearing at all?

 

Many thanks for your replies so far, off to do some reading up!!!! Any suggestions

[GhostDebt]

Hi Sue4Daz.

 

If they haven't complied with your CPR request then the embarassed defence would be the way to proceed.

Should they take the claim further, then the Allocation Questionnaire is the time to raise the matter of disclosure further and any other matters relating to the submission of an amended defence.

 

My opinion though and would expect 42man to correct me if I am wrong.

 

Regards

[GhostDebt]

Also we have 2 x CL threads.

One small claims

One Fast Track.

 

The small claims was struck out by the court as they failed to disclose documents.

The fast track case is ongoing.

[Luxxinterior]

Hi Sue4Daz.

 

If they haven't complied with your CPR request then the embarassed defence would be the way to proceed.

Should they take the claim further, then the Allocation Questionnaire is the time to raise the matter of disclosure further and any other matters relating to the submission of an amended defence.

 

My opinion though and would expect 42man to correct me if I am wrong.

 

Regards

 

I was of the impression that the smaller the claim the less documentation you would expect to receive? Unless the judge orders it of course, which seems to be the way these monkeys go, hoping that the judge wont bother with wanting to see agreements etc.

 

For fast track etc you would be entitled to a lot more documentation.

Hopefully I am wrong

 

Either way they have failed to produce on your request, the CCA 1974 says you are entitled to it at any time

[GhostDebt]

Nice to see you onboard Luxx.

While I agree with you about the amount of documents they generally provide, until it is assigned to a track, the comment in the CPR letter posted by 42man earlier comes into play.

..

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

..

So in my opinion if it wasn't included in the original CPR request it should go in the embaressed defence.. along with reference to the CPR letter and there response, to show the court they are not acting reasonably..

 

Regards

[Luxxinterior]

Nice to see you onboard Luxx.

While I agree with you about the amount of documents they generally provide, until it is assigned to a track, the comment in the CPR letter posted by 42man earlier comes into play.

..

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

..

So in my opinion if it wasn't included in the original CPR request it should go in the embaressed defence.. along with reference to the CPR letter and there response, to show the court they are not acting reasonably..

 

Regards

 

I totally agree.. They seem to like frustrating efforts as much as possible!!

 

I take it this was a GE Money account originally? And Viking Services was involved too?... somehow CL Finance stuck their oar in then out of the blue will have come a notice from Cohens combined with a court claim.

 

I received never received a NOA from anyone except Cohens. Am I wrong in thinking that really, the POC should mention GE Money? or is it sufficient for them to use the safest bank in the worlds name SANTANDER?

 

I bet Santander are sooo sorry they bought out GE Money:D

[GhostDebt]

Hello Luxx,

Which of your threads is this on?

I see you have 3 with CL... Lucky you..

[Luxxinterior]

Hello Luxx,

Which of your threads is this on?

I see you have 3 with CL... Lucky you..

 

All 3 lol...they are all the exact same lol

[Josie8]

I was of the impression that the smaller the claim the less documentation you would expect to receive? Unless the judge orders it of course, which seems to be the way these monkeys go, hoping that the judge wont bother with wanting to see agreements etc.

 

For fast track etc you would be entitled to a lot more documentation.

Hopefully I am wrong

 

Either way they have failed to produce on your request, the CCA 1974 says you are entitled to it at any time

 

 

Case isn't allocated to track yet so they have to comply with CPR 31.14 request. If they don't issue application for unless order

[sue4daz]

Hi

Thanks once again for replying. I have been reading around this site for examples of draft defences and currently have this drafted. Can someone please have a look :-

 

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

BETWEEN:

CL Finance Limited (Claimant)

and

sue4daz (Defendant)

DEFENCE

1. I sue4daz of XXXXXXXXXXX am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by CL Finance Limited

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

4. The claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the contract referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim. (DOES THIS APPLY TO MY CASE)

b) A copy of the purported contract that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

c) copies of the notice of assignment and the absolute deed of assignment have not been provided . Failure to provide these documents indicates that the Claimant has no clear right to the alleged debt and I respectfully request that the claim be struck out.

d) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged account, has not been served attached to the claim form.

e) The claimant did not send a Letter Before Action as required under the Pre-Action Protocols.

5.I have sent the claimant a request under CPR31.14, requesting documentation cited in the Particulars of Claim so that I can prepare my defence. Howard Cohen & Co Solicitors have denied this request.

6. Notwithstanding matters pleaded, it is denied that the Claimant has established a cause of action or that the claimant has a valid claim against the defendant. Consequently, it is proving difficult to plead to the particulars as matters stand.

7. The defendant respectfully requests leave from the court to amend this defence if and when the documents requested from the claimant are filed and served

Statement of Truth

I XXXXXXXXXXXXX, The Defendant, believe the above statement to be true and factual

Signed ..................... date...................

Do I need to include the fact that I have not received a DN or a NOA from the original creditor, being Santander, therefore the assignment of the debt is not recognised as being absolute???

 

Am I on the right track??? Should I submit the defence now or wait until the lest minute???

 

Many Thanks

Sue

[sue4daz]

The interest rate claimed in the POC's is also denied them.....One of the lines of your defence will be -

 

The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to recover interest at a rate of 17.46% per annum on unpaid sums due for the price of goods supplied by the Claimant to the Defendant. It is denied that such a rate of interest represents a reasonably accurate assessment of the loss sustained by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers the rate of interest is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

Sorry but dont quite understand this one re the interest - could you please explain

 

Many thanks

 

Sue

[Luxxinterior]

Sorry but dont quite understand this one re the interest - could you please explain

 

Many thanks

 

Sue

 

Hi Sue,

I believe they are trying to get more money out of you at as high a rate that they possibly can. 42man is saying that is not a reasonable rate...not that they should get anything

[GhostDebt]

Hi sue4daz,

I am pretty sure the name for the Pre Action Protocols has been changed recently. Now called Pre Action Conduct.

CPR - Pre-Action Protocols - Ministry of Justice

 

Would suggest getting confirmation of this first though from a site team member.

 

Would also include something in more detail about their failure to comply with the CPR request and add something about 42mans comment re the interest rates.

 

Regards.

[sue4daz]

Ok - thanks Luxx

Should I put this in the embarrassed defence or leave it for now?

[42man]

Add it in the defence sue4daz....

[sue4daz]

Hi

Thanks very much for replies again.

Will be amending defence tomorrow - need to go to bed. Cant look at this computer anymore tonight - been reading miles of information regarding this. Have a few other ideas of things to include inbetween general living of life!!!!!

 

Right - thanks guys - will work more on this tomorrow

 

Just one question should I leave it to the last minute or do it now??

[GhostDebt]

I would get it all ready now. That way you don't get in a panic or find your printer running out of ink the night before you have to send it lol.

 

Also gives you time to spot any errors or add something you may have missed.

 

Just make sure the court have received it by the due date...