Clamped in my own parking space!

[Graham117]

I wondered if I could trouble anyone for some help regarding this matter. The facts are:

 

I have rent a flat which comes with a parking space. The parking enforcement company changed recently, and we were sent new permits. I went to my car some weeks later, and discovered it had been clamped. I was parked in my own designated numbered parking bay, with one of the new permits on display in the windscreen. As usual, the normal story applies; I had to pay the release fee or they simply wouldn't do anything about it. When I spoke to the company, they said my car wasn't displaying a valid permit (which it was). They say they have photos to prove this, but wouldn't show me them / re-examine them. I've since written to them asking for a) a refund and/or b) to see these photos, but nothing yet. The points to note are:

 

There was a permit in the car. The ink on it had faded slightly, but was still legible. The permit had a category for "flat number", which I filled in. Apparently, I should have put the parking space number in this, which may be why my car was clamped. Obviously, "flat number" suggests you should put your flat number in here, not your parking space number.

 

The slight problem I can possibly forsee is that the permits were dropped through my door by my landlord, who left a phone message simply saying "fill them in". Presumably, they were delivered to him by the parking enforcement company, with instructions of how they should be filled it. Therefore the parking company might say the landlord didn't pass on the correct information - so sue him to get the release fee back. I get on well with my landlord, and don't want to bring him into this.

 

Ignoring my private landlord for the minute, should I also add the management company who are responsible for the flats and car park as a defendant? And on what grounds?

 

Are there any other lines I should be persuing? As far as I am concerned, I was parked on a space I rent, with one of the enforcement company's permits on display, and they should never have clamped my car. I've already threatened to take them to the small claims track of the County Court if they won't refund my money.

[Al27]

Dig out your lease/contract.

 

If you actually pay specifically for the space, you are under no obligation to display any permit whatsoever.

[crem]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if you were legally parked in your own allocated space, an angle grinder would have been much more efficient than paying a clamping release fee.

[Graham117]

I've looked at the lease. It simply says "Property: The dwelling house situated at and being [address]. Parking space number: [Number]"

 

It doesn't say I must display a permit, but then it doesn't say I don't need to. The matter of parking isn't mentioned anywhere else in it, but I have sole and exclusive use of space [Number].

 

Also, I've looked at the receipt left on the car. The clamper's licence number is on there - it checks out alright - but is there any requirement for the actual company to have some sort of authorisation or licence, or is it only their "enforcement officers"? I can't find them on the SIA's register.

[crem]

I've looked at the lease. It simply says "Property: The dwelling house situated at and being [address]. Parking space number: [Number]"

 

It doesn't say I must display a permit, but then it doesn't say I don't need to. The matter of parking isn't mentioned anywhere else in it, but I have sole and exclusive use of space [Number].

I see no reason why the lease would have to state that you don't have to do something (i.e. not display a permit) but there is every reason that it should state if they do require you to dispaly a permit.

Also, I've looked at the receipt left on the car. The clamper's licence number is on there - it checks out alright - but is there any requirement for the actual company to have some sort of authorisation or licence, or is it only their "enforcement officers"? I can't find them on the SIA's register.

No, only the clamper needs an SIA licence, the compnay needs some other type of authorisation to operate, but not an SIA badge as such

..

[Al27]

What signage is there?

 

Either way, clamping is by consent (ironic as it sounds). At no point have you consented to being clamped because no point were you instructed to fill the permit in manner x, y, z. A 'valid permit' is a generic catch all which is meaningless if there is no explanation of what a valid permit is.

 

Draft a letter to you management company first. Try softly softly, just explaining that you had a permit on display and thought it had been filled out correctly because there were no instructions.

 

Then if they play hard ball, it's letter 2 and then small claims.

[Graham117]

The signage is large, and very frequent. I don't think I'm going to dispute this on the grounds that I wasn't aware I needed a permit, or didn't consent, or anything like that. I've written and politely informed them that I had a permit on display, and so I should never have been clamped, but no response. I've also written to the management company and the SIA about this. So I think it's time for the next steps...

[barrybarry]

(I don't mean to hijack, but I think the same points could apply to me and Graham, if you need to move my post I don't mind and I apologise).

 

What are the rules I briefly read about if this happens you can pay via credit card and inform the bank you were forced to pay under duress?

 

I have had a pcn in my own property for being in the incorrect bay (not my fault). I am ignoring the 'fine' as per advice on here, however the signage does state unpaid fines will result in clamping.

 

There are some cars with permits, but more cars without permits. I (probably pointlessly) applied for one via New Generation Parking's website but have never been sent one. I presume now if I pursue it they will just come back with "pay your fine and we'll send one" and I don't really wanna be on their radar if I am going to carry on with ignoring them.

 

So the questions are

 

a) can they clamp me in my own bay? Don't I have the right to "peaceful enjoyment"?

 

b) if it happened, should I phone the police for trespass or harassment?

 

c) if forced to pay, should I use my CC and then claim it back?

 

Many thanks as always.

[crem]

 

What are the rules I briefly read about if this happens you can pay via credit card and inform the bank you were forced to pay under duress?

In theory you can claim back through your credit card, but in practice the credit card companies make it as hardas they can for you to actually do it.

 

I have had a pcn in my own property for being in the incorrect bay (not my fault). I am ignoring the 'fine' as per advice on here, however the signage does state unpaid fines will result in clamping.

Clamping for a previous occurance, or an unpaid INVOICE would be totally illegal and I would suggest a hacksaw or angle grinder would be the best remedy to their illegal claming.

There are some cars with permits, but more cars without permits. I (probably pointlessly) applied for one via New Generation Parking's website but have never been sent one. I presume now if I pursue it they will just come back with "pay your fine and we'll send one" and I don't really wanna be on their radar if I am going to carry on with ignoring them.

 

So the questions are

 

a) can they clamp me in my own bay?

No

Don't I have the right to "peaceful enjoyment"?

Yes

 

b) if it happened, should I phone the police for trespass or harassment?

Police won't be interested. Go for the "self help" route.

 

c) if forced to pay, should I use my CC and then claim it back?

You can't be "forced to pay", so don't

 

Many thanks as always.

..

[Graham117]

c) if forced to pay, should I use my CC and then claim it back?

You can't be "forced to pay", so don't

Technically yes, but what if you need your car, and there is an officer from the clamping company standing next to it demanding payment? Calling the police is unlikely to be helpful, as they will simply say you are on private land and it's not something they will get involved with.

I went for the 'pay now and claim it back later' approach, as even having to defend a charge of criminal damage was not something I wanted to have to go through.

[Zamzara]

I would claim back via the courts if necessary. Also complain to your council tenancy relations officer, as interfering with a tenants peaceful enjoyment is a big no no and amounts to a criminal offence.

[HSBCrusher]

[/color]

 

Technically yes, but what if you need your car, and there is an officer from the clamping company standing next to it demanding payment?

 

bolt croppers or an angle grinder are an instant solution in this instance.

 

How dare they clamp your car on your land!!

And then arrogantly stand by waiting for you to pay up!!

 

I went for the 'pay now and claim it back later' approach, as even having to defend a charge of criminal damage was not something I wanted to have to go through.

however, I can understand your choice of action here. I personally wouldnt bother with reclaiming the money from the card, why should they pay and the crooks who clamped you get the money?

 

nope, it would be letter before action, and then court action. They clamped you on your land, they don't have a leg to stand on.

[Al27]

Bear in mind clamping co probably already has a clutch of CCJs.

 

Concentrate on the people who employ them - the management company.

 

In fact, have you actually spoken to the management company on the telephone?

[HSBCrusher]

Bear in mind clamping co probably already has a clutch of CCJs.

 

fair point...

[barrybarry]

in a way (touch wood) I don't think I would ever be 'forced' to pay, as I walk to work and could live without my car for a day or two.

 

Therefore, would a sensible idea be to sort of ever say "well, I don't need my car for two days etc, and I will be phoning the police, management agent, council tenancy etc because you have trespassed and broken my peaceful enjoyment."

 

Would they (fat chance I suppose) just take a clamp off instead of bothering?

 

Also, as an aside, has anyone ever sat in their car to prevent it being towed?

 

Many many thanks again for all the advice.

[pin1onu]

Bear in mind clamping co probably already has a clutch of CCJs.

 

Concentrate on the people who employ them - the management company.

 

In fact, have you actually spoken to the management company on the telephone?

Al makes a very good poiint.

 

From a legal perspective

 

1. Clamping is a remedy for trespass.

2. The damages paid (i.e. the release fee) are payable to the landowner only (presumably he has some sort of agency agreement with the clampers).

 

So go after the clampers but also go for the management company and if necessary the landowner.

[Graham117]

Can you issue a claim using only the defendant's PO Box address? I know you can't using MCOL, but what about doing it the old fashioned way?

[Yorky2008]

bolt croppers or an angle grinder are an instant solution in this instance.

 

How dare they clamp your car on your land!!

And then arrogantly stand by waiting for you to pay up!!

 

I agree!

 

Has anyone ever taken this approach whilst the clamper is stood there waiting for payment? Just wondered if they tried to intervene whilst an angle grinder was taken to their clamp. Also if they did try to intervene whilst you were weilding one, what would be the legal status should anyone get injured?

 

Yorky

[DBC]

If you put the PO Box postal-code (CF63 2WZ) into Google maps it comes up with a post-office in Kendrick Road, Barry. So not much help there.

[pin1onu]

Right, a long overdue update.

 

After complaining to the management company, and threatening to sue the landowners, the management company refunded me. They also sacked the clamping firm, which was nice of them!

Nice result

We all thought that was the end, but no...

 

Months later, when moving out, on my last ever trip from that flat, I was clamped again! I'd just taken the permit off the give to the new tenants. Never saw the clamper, though he must have been watching and waiting the whole time. So I spoke (very angrily!) to the management company, who confirmed the clampers had been sacked, and had no right at all to be working there. They tried to contact the manager of the clamping firm for me, but (suprise suprise) he wasn't answering his mobile.

 

The management company have once again agreed to refund me but:

 

1) Does the fact the clampers no longer have the landowners permission automatically make the clamping unlawful? I'd have thought it does! Does it make it a criminal matter?

Yes. Report to the SIA and the police. Offense under the PSI Act.

 

2) Even though the management company have refunded me, can I still persue the manager of the clampers, as it's him I want to see to be made to pay for this! I would of course repay anything owed to the management company if I eventually got money out of him.

As you've now been recompensed any claim, your case is reduced. You could go after them for trespass but you might have a hard time getting a court to award anything other than nominal damages.

 

3) Does anyone know who these criminals are? The firm is "A1 Parking" (www.a1parking.co.uk - Registrant's address: [EDIT] Their address is a PO Box in Barry (see above) but registered to a non-existant address. The manager is Matthew Williams, of whereabouts unknown! Any ideas on how he could be tracked down?

Try reporting this company and the manager to Trading Standards. He may well be known to them.

4) I told the old bill about the rogue clampers, and they said they will speak to them if they see them on site (which I doubt will happen, to be honest). Is there anything else that should be done?

Short of trying a private detective I'm not sure there is much else you can do. Even if you did catch up with him and get a CCJ he'd probably do a runner.

Edited January 19, 2012 by seanamarts
taken out personal details

[dpick]

Months later, when moving out, on my last ever trip from that flat, I was clamped again! I'd just taken the permit off the give to the new tenants. Never saw the clamper, though he must have been watching and waiting the whole time. So I spoke (very angrily!) to the management company, who confirmed the clampers had been sacked, and had no right at all to be working there. They tried to contact the manager of the clamping firm for me, but (suprise suprise) he wasn't answering his mobile.

 

Purely my own thought but the clamping company had been sacked and had no right to clamp anyone I believe that a broken clamp would have been the answer.

 

dpick

 

[lamma]

"1) Does the fact the clampers no longer have the landowners permission automatically make the clamping unlawful? I'd have thought it does! Does it make it a criminal matter?" yes. No A1 Parking Services on Companies House so this may be a trading name and the real company may have a different one. A1 Parking Services (at least) used to be BPA members. this lot are well known for dodgy practices, VERY dodgy practices. just google "A1 Parking Services". A court Order can force the address behind the P.O box. but that could be a blind as well. with their history they must be adept at hiding. ICSTIS may be able to help in finding out what real number is behind 0870 242 5674

[kiptower]

looks like they hide in the post office here , the actual PO box address

 

Google Maps

[JonCris]

Contact the PO as when asked they have to provide the full address of any PO box. Companies like this rely on the ignorance of consumers to hide their true addresses

[lamma]

dodgy (most if not all) clampers use a 'protected address'. usually used to protect at risk people such as battered wives etc. who knew clampers couldn't stick up for themselves. If t is a protected address m highly likely, then the P.O. won't give the backing address. An order of the court will get it.