how to contest a PCN in Oxford pls?

[fragrant verbena]

Hi there everyone,

I parked my car on Saturday at the side of the road in an area that was clearly marked as being for parking. There were no yellow lines in the parking area. The parking restrictions detailed on the sign gave the impression that there were no restrictions at that time and that I could park there. When I got back to my car I found a PCN waiting for me! The offence given was a “breach of clearway or red route”. I had another look at the sign and this time I looked at the sign above the one I read which gave different reading!!!!

Of course if I had known there were any parking restrictions other than those on the white sign I would not have parked there!

The sign is very confusing- once I read the white sign I thought it contained all I needed to know!

Another person who hade made the same mistake contacted me and I gave him a witness statement in support of his appeal.

I think I should appeal as it seems to me very unreasonable and that many people are making that mistake and so the sign is not really clear. But if there is no chance of winning it I think I might as well just pay the reduced fine!

Any advice on likelihood of winning and what I should include in my appeal/ how to set it out would be GREATLY appreciated!

Many thanks!

[Jamberson]

Hi.

 

You'll need to provide more details.

 

What exactly did the signs say?

 

Where were you parked? (I don't know what is meant by "at the side of the road in an area that was clearly marked for parking" - were you on-street, in a car park, in a parking bay etc.)

 

What was marked on the road at the point where the vehicle was parked?

 

If possible, some photos would help but if not, can you give the location so it can be checked on Google Earth?

 

Cheers.

[fragrant verbena]

Hi,

Sorry!!!

I was parked on the street in a parking bay, on St Clements, Oxford.

I have attached the photo that I have (I hope this works- I am quite a novice at all this!)

Many thanks!

[fragrant verbena]

and this is the link:

 

[patdavies]

1) What time did you park and for how long?

 

2)Can you scan, wash and post the PCN please (both sides)?

 

3) Can you provide a picture of the upper sign in its entirety please?

 

As I read that sign, parking is prohibited Monday to Saturday from 7:30 to 9:30 in the morning; parking is then allowed for 30 minutes with no return for 1 hour until 4:00 in the afternoon; parking is then prhibited again until 6:30 in the evening; there is then no restriction until 7:30 the next day - with no restriction at all on Sundays

[electron99]

 

As I read that sign, parking is prohibited Monday to Saturday from 7:30 to 9:30 in the morning; parking is then allowed for 30 minutes with no return for 1 hour until 4:00 in the afternoon; parking is then prhibited again until 6:30 in the evening; there is then no restriction until 7:30 the next day - with no restriction at all on Sundays

 

This is exactly how I read the signs.

[fragrant verbena]

I parked at 4.30- I had read the white sign thinking that parking restrictions only operated between 9.30-4pm. The ticket was issued at 4.51pm.

 

I do not have a better picture of the sign- I will try to get one.

 

Do you think there is a chance or should I pay the fine?

[green_and_mean]

I parked at 4.30- I had read the white sign thinking that parking restrictions only operated between 9.30-4pm. The ticket was issued at 4.51pm.

 

I do not have a better picture of the sign- I will try to get one.

 

Do you think there is a chance or should I pay the fine?

 

The bright yellow sign saying no stopping 4-6pm should have been a bit of a hint, surely?

[fragrant verbena]

of course- now that I am looking at it I can see what it says. But trying to manage with children and reading the sign quickly- I obviously misread the sign......the thing is so have others.......

[Jamberson]

You've got nothing to lose by appealing, fragrant verbena (nice name).

 

You can lodge an appeal on the basis that you were genuinely confused by the signage. It's obviously not a legal defence but the local authority can use discretion at this stage. You can try, and see what happens.

 

If you do, make sure you appeal within 14 days of the PCN having been issued.

 

Meantime, if you are able to post the PCN on here, someone can take a look and see if there's anything amiss with it.

[green_and_mean]

I am not sure of the legality of the sign though a clearway is not usually stuck in a bay adjacent to double yellows. You can stop on double yellows so it seems a bit of a strange restriction I would check the Traffic order for the street.

[fragrant verbena]

Hi all,

 

Thank you for your comments- I am trying to upload the images but I do not seem to be able to do them other than as a zip attachment- i hope this works.

 

I have tried to search for the grounds under which I can appeal and a format to structure my appeal but I cannoto seem to find anything...can anyone help please?

 

Many thanks again!

PCN 1.zip

PCN 2.zip

Penalty Notice 1.zip

[Jamberson]

Can't see any lines next to the kerb on Google Earth, just a standard parking bay with a broken line outline.

 

What does the upper part of the sign say?

[green_and_mean]

Can't see any lines next to the kerb on Google Earth, just a standard parking bay with a broken line outline.

 

What does the upper part of the sign say?

 

It says no stopping but the rest of the street seems to be dyl or zig zags seems a bit of an odd clearway.

[Jamberson]

I concur. Odd.

 

Def worth checking the RTO for that location. This might well be unenforceable.

[fragrant verbena]

you see this is some distance away from where I live and I do not really remember what the upper bit of the sign said.

 

Sorry for my ignorance but what is RTO?

 

If I am to appeal- what should my grounds be please?

 

thank you!

[green_and_mean]

you see this is some distance away from where I live and I do not really remember what the upper bit of the sign said.

 

Sorry for my ignorance but what is RTO?

 

If I am to appeal- what should my grounds be please?

 

thank you!

 

Its meant to be TRO traffic regulation order, its a document which states the restrictions in place in the street with times and locations. Its available from the Council.

[fragrant verbena]

Ah I see- I will investigate....

is there a particular set up for the appeal or do I just write a letter?

[green_and_mean]

Ah I see- I will investigate....

is there a particular set up for the appeal or do I just write a letter?

 

A phone call should speed things up if you are local sometimes you can view them in the library or town hall if not they should send you a copy.

[fragrant verbena]

Hi all,

 

I've called the council to enquire about the RTO and they are going to send me a copy.

 

I have drafted the following to send to contest the notice....do you think it is ok please:

 

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to contest the PCN I received on 08/08/2009.

On Saturday, 8 August 2009, I parked my car in St Clements, Oxford. I parked the car at the side of the road in an area that was clearly marked as being for parking. There were no yellow lines in the parking area. Before leaving the vehicle I examined the parking sign, which was a white sign with a white 'P' on a blue background. The parking restrictions detailed on the sign were: Mon-Sat 9.30 am – 4 pm 30 min; no return within 1 hr. Because I was leaving my vehicle after 4:30 p.m. it was clear to me that there were no parking restrictions after that time. When I returned to my car, I found a parking ticket attached to the windscreen, the time of the offence on the ticket was detailed as 4:51 p.m. the offence was given as breach of clearway or red route. The white sign made no reference to there being a clearway or red route in operation.

If I had known there were any parking restrictions within this parking bay, other than those on the white sign I would not have parked there. I did not take any notice of the yellow sign with the white sign, because clearly the parking restrictions were detailed on the white sign as I would have expected.

Thank you all for your help!

[Michael Browne]

The appeal letter has no hope of being successful. You have admitted parking after the permitted time (ie 4.00pm) and have admitted ignoring the yellow No Stopping sign which prohibits any parking between 4pm and 6.30pm.

 

Basically your only hope is that the TRO is faulty.

[Jamberson]

I wouldn't send a letter just yet. You are waiting on a copy of the RTO. If there's anything untoward in there which renders the bay unenforceable, then you can cite this as the basis of your appeal instead. You've got a couple of weeks yet before you need to have your first appeal in.

[patdavies]

I wouldn't send a letter just yet. You are waiting on a copy of the RTO. If there's anything untoward in there which renders the bay unenforceable, then you can cite this as the basis of your appeal instead. You've got a couple of weeks yet before you need to have your first appeal in.

 

TRO, Jamberson.

 

Traffic Regulation Order.

 

Known as a TMO in London; Traffic Management Order

[fragrant verbena]

I wouldn't send a letter just yet. You are waiting on a copy of the RTO. If there's anything untoward in there which renders the bay unenforceable, then you can cite this as the basis of your appeal instead. You've got a couple of weeks yet before you need to have your first appeal in.

 

In order to qualify for the discounted rate I need to send the appeal by this friday.

 

I've just got the RTO/TRO through...it is quite a long document- what should I be looking for?

 

Many thanks!

[green_and_mean]

In order to qualify for the discounted rate I need to send the appeal by this friday.

 

I've just got the RTO/TRO through...it is quite a long document- what should I be looking for?

 

Many thanks!

 

Look for the restriction that covers the area you parked without looking its hard to be helpful all TROs are laid out differently. If its emailable let me know and I'll give you my address and will look it over for you.