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I have been trying to attach what I have received from Arrow Global which they say is the signed credit agreement. However when I was looking at this it appears that this is the application form first filled in to request the loan. We have signed the form in 1995 but in numerous places it states application form. Please help me in what to do next :confused::confused::confused:

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if you upload the scan to photobucket and the copythe link to hear

 

ida x

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Have you sent a SAR to the original creditor too ? although this costs £10 it could be £10 well spent. Just be wary that Arow have been known to issue statutory demands (on debts over £750)..... SAR example is here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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It contains non of the required prescribed terms and is unenforceable.

Delete the download links because all your details are showing.

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Redbull, I have unapproved the photo's of your agreement as it shows your personal details....can you edit the documents please, and i'll re-approve when you have done this...

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Redbull, I have unapproved the photo's of your agreement as it shows your personal details....can you edit the documents please, and i'll re-approve when you have done this...

 

 

I dont know how to edit the docs - please could you advise me how to do this. I have deleted them for the present time until I can sort out how to delete my details.

 

thank you

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Just open your document using Paint & blank out the personal info.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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It's unenforceable anyway so send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Have you sent a SAR to the original creditor too ? although this costs £10 it could be £10 well spent. Just be wary that Arow have been known to issue statutory demands (on debts over £750)..... SAR example is here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

 

thank you very much. I will do this to Paragon tomorrow. Please should I send one to Arrow too ? :confused:

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It's unenforceable anyway so send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

 

 

thank you so very much. I am so confused with the whole issue but will definitely will copy this letter over and add the relevant details and send to Arrow tomorrow. Thank you once again, it means so much when others try to help the situation. I will let you know when I receive a reply. :-)

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thank you very much. I will do this to Paragon tomorrow. Please should I send one to Arrow too ? :confused:

 

Send the SAR to the original creditor, not the DCA. ;)

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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  • 2 weeks later...
It's unenforceable anyway so send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

 

Hi,

after sending this letter to Arrow I have received the attached reply. What do I do next please ?? :confused:

 

_0907121845_001.pdf

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It's up to them to make the next move, you've made your position clear in the letter above. They cannot take any enforcement action without producing an enforceable agreement.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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  • 6 months later...

After hearing nothing from Arrow Global they have now sent me a copy of a credit agreement which is totally blank other than our names at the top left hand corner, there are no figures of any kind, no signatures or details of the amount claimed. Please could someone tell me if I can ignore this as surely this is not what they think as a copy of our original agreement !!!!

 

Help please :confused:

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Send the idiots the letter in post #9 again.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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  • 2 weeks later...

They probably don't have the credit agreement.

 

I too had a loan from Universal Credit, which became Paragon. I run into problems and CAB negotiated a reduced payment, Paragon said they would freeze the interest, I later found they didn't.

 

To cut a very long story, basically they claimed I owed £13k on a £3k loan, even though I had paid £14k back. I got the run around about the credit agreement, and then received a blank agreement with just my name and address.

 

I called their bluff, stopped paying and after a year of Paragon calling me and sending me letters, they finally closed the account with nothing more owing. They admitted they didn't have the credit agreement.

http://paragondebts.blogspot.com/

 

My Paragon debt story.

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  • 3 months later...
after all this time I have now received the attached letter. Any help would be much appreciated please

 

[ATTACH]19779[/ATTACH]

 

The letter says you have not disputed the debt? That's wrong isn't it?

 

Like I mentioned before, I had a huge problem with Paragon and finally got them off my back after they slipped up and told me they didn't have the credit agreement.

 

I'd send a letter back by recorded delivery -

 

Dear Arrow

 

Without Prejudice

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8.07.10, the content has been noted.

 

The debt is subject to dispute for the following reason.

 

Paragon have failed to provide a true copy of the consumer Credit Agreement for the alleged debt. I sent a request to you for this on xxx date, giving 14/28 days for a reply. To date you have failed to supply this, note that a copy of the application form is not a legally binding consumer credit agreement.

 

I await your comments.

 

 

 

 

I will try to dig out the letter I sent to Paragon that made them close my account.

http://paragondebts.blogspot.com/

 

My Paragon debt story.

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29th June 2009

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account xxxxxxxxxxxxx. Account in dispute.

 

without prejudice.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 22nd June 2009 regarding the alleged debt to your company. Please note that I do not acknowledge this debt and will not enter into any further correspondence with you on the matter.

 

Failure to supply a true copy of the CCA.

 

As you are aware, your company are unable to supply a true copy of the consumer credit agreement from Universal Credit, although you have supplied a reconstructed version to comply with a request for a copy. The reconstructed version is not legally binding. Further to this, even if you if you can locate the original, many Universal Credit agreements have technical errors which make them unenforceable along with the debts you purchased from Colonial Finance.

 

 

Change to CCA - Consideration

 

On February 15th 2000, Paragon wrote to all customers behind with payments, myself included. The letter requested post dated cheques and a standing order mandate for future payments. In return Paragon offered to consolidate arrears and report the account as up to date. I have in my possession the case notes from Northampton county court regarding an appeal by Paragon to charge interest after judgement. The defendant argued that the above agreement was consideration and as such modified the original credit agreement. . The transcript asks whether the variation of a loan agreement fell within s 82 of consumer credit act 1974 and refers to . “On 15th February 2000 a standard automated letter was sent by the Claimant to all of its customers who were in arrears and making payments by cheque or cash, in order to offer an incentive to customers to pay by standing order. A copy of this standard letter is attached at exhibit MAH1. The terms of the letter are self-explanatory. It requested: 1 The return of a Standing Order Mandate; 2 A cheque for February's payment and post dated cheque for March.”. I am aware that Paragon dropped the appeal for interest after judgement rather than argue the technical points of this.

 

 

Lack of transparency - Unfair relationship test.

 

CAB agreed with Universal Credit to freeze interest on the account. Paragon then agreed to continue with the reduced payments while adding interest which was considerably higher than the monthly payment. Your company lacked transparency on this, refused to give balances (UC wrote the balance on the top of every letter). In fact the only way I discovered the interest was by paying £25 for a statement, even then I had to call several times to actually get the statement. I am aware I am not alone, I have come across several other cases with exactly the same circumstances. I consider the practices border on extortion.

 

 

 

Your company, fully aware that interest was being added, continued to accept token payments which made up a tiny fraction of the monthly interest being added. Your company kept myself and others completely in the dark with regards to charging interest. Your company repeatedly refused to give balance figures when requested to do so.

 

 

Interest added after CAB agreement

 

At the time I ran into difficulty with the payments, East Northamptonshire CAB made agreements with yourself and other companies to freeze the interest and accept token payments. You claim to have never agreed to this, although CAB still have the records regarding my account as I have visited them several times since.

 

Payments made on the account total more than the original sum to be repaid by a considerable amount. In fact, had you kept your promise to freeze interest the account would have been paid in full many years ago. Instead you continued to add interest and payments to date total over £15,000, yet you still claim the balance is over £11,000.

 

£26,000 plus for repayment of a £4200 debt would fail the unfair relationship test in a court of law.

 

Summary

 

Your recent letter asks for a proposal for a full and final settlement. In my experience lenders only go down this route when they are fully aware a debt is not enforceable. As mentioned above, payments made on the account have fully repaid the original sum plus a considerable amount of interest and charges.

 

You have recently been telephoning me on a daily basis, despite my asking for you to communicate by letter and stop calling me. I was advised you would call me every day until I paid. This is harassment and as such I have now made a formal complaint against you under the Consumer Protection from Unfair regulations act 2008.

 

A recent letter also threatened a home visit. There is only an implied license under English common Law for people to visit me at my home without prior permission, postmen and people asking direction etc (Armstrong v Sheppard and Short Ltd 1959, per Lord Evershed). Therefore take note that under English common Law I revoke license for you, or your reprehensive, to visit me at my property, if you do so you will be liable for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to Police attendance.

 

 

As you obviously have no intention of stopping the constant harassment for this non enforceable debt, please note I consider the account in dispute, as such you may not process my data or pass the account to a third party. Nothing contained in this letter should be taken as acknowledgement of any amount outstanding.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

http://paragondebts.blogspot.com/

 

My Paragon debt story.

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