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wiganwayne

advice please.

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Hi i am not sure if this is on the right forum but here goes,

 

Yesterday i purchased a car from a local car dealer, the man who sold it to me informed me that it was sold without warranty which i didnt have a problem with. however once we left the garage we noticed that the brake lights were not working. we took the car back the the dealer who said that he would get the car checked out for us BUT we would have to pay for any costs inccured.

 

my question is were do i stand on this? surely even without a warranty the dealer has a duty of care to make sure that all his cars are legal to drive and road worthy before they leave his forecourt. we have also noticed there is no jack or wheel brace (but we can deal with this).

 

any advice would be gratefully apreciated

Edited by wiganwayne
treads merged

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Consumer affairs - In England

 

 

Buying secondhand vehicles

 

 

This information applies to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

 

 

Problems buying secondhand vehicles

 

When you buy a secondhand vehicle your rights are the same as when you buy any other goods. However, there are some differences and you should read this information before deciding what action to take. There can also be particular problems with secondhand vehicles because:

  • a secondhand vehicle may have many hidden faults
  • whether or not you can make a complaint or take any action if the vehicle is faulty may depend on the age and make of the vehicle, the price you paid for it and any description given by the seller.

If there is a problem with a vehicle, it is important to act as quickly as possible after buying it. This is because in many cases, your claim will depend on the condition of the vehicle at the time of sale. Because the condition of a secondhand vehicle varies greatly, it will be harder to prove that there is a genuine complaint if the vehicle has been used for some time.

When you buy a secondhand vehicle, your rights depend on whether you bought it from:

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You bought the vehicle from a dealer

 

Your consumer rights when you buy a vehicle from a dealer

 

If you bought the vehicle from a dealer, you will have certain rights under consumer law.

A secondhand vehicle must match its description, be fit for its purpose, and be of satisfactory quality. However, the standard for meeting the requirement that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality will be lower because it is secondhand. A secondhand vehicle should be in reasonable condition and work properly. When deciding whether a secondhand vehicle is in reasonable condition it is important to consider the vehicle’s age and make, the past history of the vehicle and how much you paid for it.

If a secondhand vehicle needs more extensive repairs than seemed necessary at the time it was bought, this does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality. A secondhand vehicle can be of satisfactory quality if it is in a useable condition, even if it is not perfect.

If the vehicle develops a problem soon after you bought it, you may have a right to return the vehicle to the dealer and get your money back. This would probably need to be within about three to four weeks at the most of buying the vehicle. The problem would need to be fairly major, and you would need to take into account the age, mileage and price of the vehicle when deciding whether it is reasonable to take it back.

You must stop using the vehicle at once and contact the dealer. If you traded-in a vehicle, you are entitled to have it returned if it is still available, or to have the full value allowed on it, if it has been disposed of. If you have left it too late to claim a refund, or you don't want one, you may be entitled to ask for a repair or replacement. The fault must have been there when you bought the vehicle. If you do agree for a major fault to be repaired and the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory, it's not too late to ask for your money back.

If the dealer won't agree to put the problem right, you can take legal action up to six years from the date you bought the vehicle (five years in Scotland). However, it is probably unrealistic to take legal action for a fault in a secondhand vehicle, especially an older vehicle, once you have been using it for a reasonable length of time.

If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this.

After six months, it will be up to you to prove that there was a major problem with the vehicle when it was sold. You will have to provide evidence of this so it may help to get an independent report which could establish the condition of the vehicle when it was sold.

If the dealer agrees to repair the vehicle, the repairs have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. The dealer must pay the costs of the repairs. If the repair has taken a long time, you may be able to use a service loan car or claim compensation, for example, for the cost of hiring a vehicle. If the dealer refuses to repair the vehicle, you are entitled to get it repaired elsewhere and claim back the cost from the dealer. If the vehicle can't be repaired or replaced or this is considered too expensive, taking into account the type of fault, you may have the right to get some or all of your money back. You will have to negotiate with the dealer to decide on what would be a reasonable amount. In deciding what is reasonable, you will need to take into account how much use you have had out of the vehicle.

For more information about your rights when you buy goods, including secondhand goods, see Buying goods - your rights.

A Citizens Advice Bureau can help you negotiate with a dealer if something is wrong with your vehicle. To search for details of your local CAB, including those that give advice by e-mail, click on openinnewwin.gifnearest CAB.

There are two circumstances in which you may not have a right to complain to the dealer. These are where:

  • the dealer specifically drew the vehicle’s defects to your attention before you bought it. You may still be able to make a complaint if, for example, the dealer said the clutch was stiff when in fact it was worn through. If the dealer did not point out the full extent of the defects, they are still liable for those they missed. However, the dealer does not have to say anything about the vehicle’s condition at all
  • you inspected the vehicle before you bought it and should have noticed the defects. However, if you didn't notice the defects, you could try arguing that you examined the vehicle as a layperson and could not be expected to spot mechanical or structural defects.

In England and Wales, for more information about what action you can take if you have a problem with a second hand vehicle, see Second hand cars in Consumer Fact Sheets.

Breach of contract

 

As well as the rights you automatically get under consumer law, you and the dealer may have agreed other terms and conditions, for example, that certain repairs would be done before delivery or that delivery would be by a certain date. If the dealer does not keep to these agreed terms they will have broken the contract.

For more information about compensation for delays on delivery, see Buying goods – your rights.

Unfair contract terms

 

If there is a term in your contract with a dealer which is unfair to you, you may not have to stick to it.

For more information on unfair contract terms when you buy goods, see Buying goods – your rights.

The dealer gave a false description of the vehicle

 

If you were given a false description of the vehicle when you bought it, for example, the dealer said that the vehicle had done 45,000 miles when it had actually done 95,000 miles, this is a criminal offence. You could try telling the dealer that if the problem isn't resolved to your satisfaction, you will report them to the trading standards department of the local authority. Trading Standards can take legal action against the dealer under unfair commercial practices regulations.

If this doesn't solve your problem, you should report the dealer to Consumer Direct who will pass the information on to Trading Standards. You can contact Consumer Direct on 0845 404 0506 or at: openinnewwin.gifwww.consumerdirect.gov.uk. In Northern Ireland, you should contact ConsumerLine on 0845 600 6262 or at: openinnewwin.gifwww.consumerline.org.

Trading Standards won't be able to take action on your behalf, although they may prosecute the dealer for committing a criminal offence. If you still want the dealer to compensate you in some way or give you your money back, you will have to consider whether it is worth your while taking the dealer to court. Going to court should be a last resort. If you haven't made a genuine effort to sort out your problem before starting court action, even if you win your case the court may reduce your compensation.

For more information about how to negotiate with a dealer when you have a problem with goods you have bought, see Buying goods – your rights.

Licensed dealers in Scotland

 

In Scotland, some district councils require secondhand vehicle dealers to register, and will issue them with a licence. If you are having problems with a dealer in an area where there is a licensing system, you should contact the local Trading Standards department. Trading Standards can withdraw the dealer's licence. It might be worth mentioning this fact when you are trying to come to an agreement with the dealer.

You will need to check whether the area where you bought the vehicle has a licensing system and, if so, what the local requirements are.

 

Back to top

What action can you take against a dealer

 

If you have a problem with a secondhand vehicle you have bought from a dealer, first work out what rights you have and decide what you want the seller to do about it. It is the dealer and not the manufacturer who is responsible for dealing with your complaint. Follow the steps below:

  • stop using the car
  • collect all your documents together, including your sales invoice, guarantee or warranty and/or credit agreement
  • contact the dealer as soon as you discover the fault. Take the vehicle back, and ask to speak to a manager or the owner. Alternatively, write to the manager or owner, enclosing a copy of your sales invoice. If you bought the goods on credit, send a copy of your letter to the credit company. Keep a copy of your letter. If you are complaining in person, explain your problem calmly but firmly. Ask for a full refund, a repair, a replacement, or compensation depending on what you would like the dealer to do. Set a time limit for the dealer to sort out the problem
  • if the dealer doesn't agree on the cause of the problem, you may have to get an expert opinion. You can do this through a trade association, the AA, RAC, or from anyone suitably qualified who is willing to put their findings in writing. You will usually have to pay for the report. You should also reach agreement with the seller in advance on the choice of expert and that you will both be bound by the expert's findings. If you want to use the expert's evidence in court proceedings, you will need the court's permission first, otherwise you may not be able to recover the costs, even if you win your case
  • many dealers are members of trade associations which have a Code of Practice covering the sale of new and secondhand cars and repairs. If the dealer is a member of a trade association, it may offer to help you negotiate an agreement with the dealer through conciliation or arbitration. This could mean you can avoid going to court. Arbitration is often legally binding so you would need to make sure you are very clear about what you have agreed to before you enter into any agreement. Trade associations which may be able to help you include: the Retail Motor Industry Federation, Motor Codes Limited and the Scottish Motor Trade Association.
  • if you are still dissatisfied, or you do not want to accept arbitration, write to the dealer repeating your complaint and mentioning any action that has already been taken. If you have bought the vehicle on credit, you should send a copy of this letter to the credit company. Say that you will give the dealer fourteen days to sort out the problem or you will consider legal action. Send your letter by recorded delivery with a copy to the head office. Be sure to keep copies of all letters
  • the trader might not sort out your problem in the way that you've asked for, but might offer you an alternative solution instead. You can either accept this offer or continue to negotiate for what you want. Be realistic in what you will accept. You may not get a better offer by going to court
  • if the dealer doesn't reply to your letters, refuses to do anything, or makes a final offer that you are unwilling to accept, your only other choice is to go to court. If you are claiming the cost of repairs, make sure you have obtained sufficient evidence to prove your claim, for example, expert reports and photographs before you allow another garage to repair the car. Remember, court should be your last resort. You also need to find out if the dealer has enough money to pay your claim. It is not worth suing a person or a firm that has no money


Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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double posted sorry :(


Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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He has sold you an illegal car, that's not allowed unless you are told at the time and take it away on a trailer.

Tell - not ask - that he pays for it (your right anyway under soga). If he continues to refuse, then you can take it elsewhere to be fixed and send him a copy of the bill with a demand for payment upon which if he fails then you will see him in court.

Give him 7 days only to fix at his cost.

 

If you have a problem with him verbally, then send the same again in a recorded delivery letter.

 

Warranty is just an extra and has no real meaning in law, just a convenience.

  • Haha 1

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thanks for the advice, i was pretty certain i was within my rights to get him to pay for the work but wanted to make sure.

 

we took the car back within 30 mins of buying it and left it with him. he said it will be monday before they can get to look at it and once they have found out what thr fault is he would ring me to let me know how much I would have to pay. :-o

 

oh and sorry for the tripple post :-| if i could delete/merge them i would

 

 

wayne

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threads merged, regards, snoops


 

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You can make a donation

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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Are you all fixed up now Wayne?

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Are you all fixed up now Wayne?

 

 

May i take this oppertunity to thank everyone on this site that gave us advice on this matter, your information was HELPFULL and I MEAN HELPFULL!!

 

I e-mailed the showroom on the sunday basically telling him that under no circumstances would i be paying for the car to be repaired as it was his duty to get the car fixed and was illegal to sell the car with the brake lights not working.

i also made a point in stating that i was well within my rights to get all my money back if i wanted too.I told him that i would not be collecting the car until it had been repaired.

 

I waited all day monday for a reply but nothing, then first thing tuesday morning he rang me up telling me that i can have a full refund if i wanted. i jumped at the chance and by dinner time on tuesday he had given me all my money back and everything had been sorted.

 

can i just say without your help i would have probably paid for the work to be done, so to say i am gratefull to you all is a massive understatement.

 

i am sorry i didnt get back sooner to let you know how i got on but all my time had been taken up looking for a new car. (i am now the proud owner of a subaru impreza)

 

it really is great to know there are people out there with this sort of knowledge that are willing to help

 

once again thanks

 

wayne

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Glad to see you got the result you wanted.

 

A big thanks must got those who advised the OP.


 

Help us to keep on helping.

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums.

This site is run solely on donations.

 

You can make a donation

HERE. Thank you.

 

Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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