30MPH rules

[jaffacat]

Hi all. Does anyone know the rules about the above? It`s just that I saw in the news this week about a man who contested his speeding fine because the street lights were too far apart to make it a 30mph area!

Where I stay the 30mph boundary has been extended about 500 yards into an area that has no street lighting. Does this mean that it cannot be enforced as a 30mph area even though the signs are there?

Many thanks in advance!

[david1605red]

In the absence of any signs, a road with streetlamps 200m apart is assumed to have a default 30mph limit. The case in the paper hinged on the fact that the streetlamps were further apart than that, therefore there should have been signs so the 30 limit was invalid.

 

If a 30mph limit is properly signposted then, irrespective of street lighting, that is the limit for that road.

[jaffacat]

Ok. Thanks for that!

[lamma]

there is a requirement for lit signs that may come into play here isn't there ? Plus check the traffic order, signs have been known to put up in the wrong place. the order will be very explicit and 'measurable'.

[Conniff]

Don't forget the height regulations as well. If the lamps are more than 20ft high they are carriagway lighting and those distance rules apply.

If they are no more than 13ft high, they are footway lighting and don't count for speed restrictions.

If they are between 13ft and 20ft, then to be carriagway lighting there must be no gaps of more than 50yds between any two otherwise they are classed as footway lighting.

[patdavies]

To clear up a couple of misleading items here.

 

In the absence of any signs, a road with streetlamps 200m apart is assumed to have a default 30mph limit.

 

Not true.

 

If the street lights are 200 metres apart, they do not signify a 30 mph limit and repeater signs are required

 

The regulations are clear that the distance between the lights must be 200 yards or 185 metres or less. If the lights do conform to this, then repeater signs are specifically prohibited.

 

Even then, a system of street lighting alone is insufficient to impose an enforceable limit. There must be terminal signs at the point of entry to and departure from the 30 mph limit.

 

The requirement for reptaer signs does not lay diown a minimum or maximum distance between them; merely that they must exist at regular intervals. Thus in the OP's case, whilst it could be argued that the length of unit road should have 30 mph repeaters, the enfocing authority will argue that 500 yards is below the requirement for regular intervals 0 only a court can decide if that stance is reasonable.

[Startkey&Clutch]

I think the operative word there Pat was 'assumed'. What happens if a terminal sign is missing from an entry/exit point to a 30mph road but there are multiple entry/exit points with existing terminal signs? Its still a 30mph road isnt it?

[patdavies]

I think the operative word there Pat was 'assumed'. What happens if a terminal sign is missing from an entry/exit point to a 30mph road but there are multiple entry/exit points with existing terminal signs? Its still a 30mph road isnt it?

 

Lights can signify a limit and if a terminal sign is missing, this does not change the fact that a 30 mph limit exists.

 

However, if the terminal sign is missing at the driver's entry to the limit, then the limit is unenforceable in law. Settled case law is Davies v Heatley which held that if signage did not conform to the regulations it did not exist,even if it were obvious to a reasonable man what was meant.

[Startkey&Clutch]

OK got it.

 

It would be an irresponsible person who would drive fast just because the sign was missing.

Its still a 30mph limit, what you are saying is that there would be a defence.

[BDE]

Hi all, I am trying to find out if there is a requirement for a 30mph sign place at the entrance to a 30mp zone has to be a minimum height off the ground. I went through an entry point with signs that were about 70cms high placed on mock gates at the sides of the road. Didnt see them at the time because they were obscured by contractors vehicles parked on the verges. Have googled myself to death looking for any info. Is anyne aware of any such height requirement.

Thank you

[pin1onu]

Have you checked the TRSGD on the DfT website. That's where I would expect that sort of information. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hungrydoug]

Hi all, I am trying to find out if there is a requirement for a 30mph sign place at the entrance to a 30mp zone has to be a minimum height off the ground. I went through an entry point with signs that were about 70cms high placed on mock gates at the sides of the road. Didnt see them at the time because they were obscured by contractors vehicles parked on the verges. Have googled myself to death looking for any info. Is anyne aware of any such height requirement.

Thank you

 

There's advice that they should be a certain height off the ground, but not explicit regulation. These sound like they were part of a village or town gateway? Very old but still current is Chapter 1. Section 6 paragraph 1.49 is the one you want, remmber that the TSM is only advisory.

[BDE]

pin1onu. Thanks for the reply but no luck.

Hungrydoug. Thank you. This is the only reference I have ever seen and is really helpfull.

Regards