Oh what a mess - Debt Collector Debt ' Pay up or else...'

[joedee2k]

Okay,

 

I'd like some advice and opinions on a really bad decision my Husband has made with a old HP debt, i have a feeling he'll get no positive responses but i can explain anyways and what comes back comes back.

 

My Husband is REALLY bad with his money and has got himself into quite a bit of debt, i took over and organised payment plans with his creditors and for the past 4-5 years have been treading water keeping his head afloat - with much stress and effort on my part i must add! he's had no attachment of earnings or ccj's - which is a miracle given his history with debt he's been making payments on time and has a managed bank account.

 

We've been experiencing financial hardship for the past month after my husband was laid off until further notice and have been existing on £40 per week Tax credits, we have a claim on going for IB JSA and we've today had to get a crisis loan to cover food and heating costs, we've (I've) spoken to our creditors and everyone has been paid for this month as per our old financial statement - when he was working - and everyone seems okay so far - apart from one creditor on an old HP agreement that he defaulted on.

 

Its complicated as he originally tried to voluntary terminate the agreement 3 years ago and as he'd missed a few payments previously had had a letter saying 'the HP agreement was now terminated and he was now no longer in possession of the goods with their consent' he got a few of these letters and once he'd paid up his arrears (later than the date of the default in some cases) everything carried on as normal - or so we thought.

 

When he came to VT the car after he had paid enough as stated on the agreement they said that he couldnt VT as the agreement had been terminated as per the previous letters they'd sent.

 

We were confused as they had made no effort to get the car (of which they would need a court order as per the agreement terms), they were quite happy to continue to accept his payments and for him to drive the car after these letters had been issued and he'd payed up to date but as soon as he tried to VT, the bloke i personally spoke to just continued to repeat 'we will not accept a voluntary termination on this account as the HP agreement has now been terminated' - back from the date of the first letter recieved some months earlier.

 

I asked him on the phone to what agreement were we now paying against then and the bloke said the payments were a 'act of goodwill' on their part for him to keep the car (even though his account was now still clear)

 

Anyways... long story cut slightly shorter...

 

He wanted to VT the car as he wanted a newer one (he's got some sort of compulsion with more debt i think) and so tried a different tact, get a new finance company to part ex the car and clear the outstanding finance in the process. They wouldnt. But they would just give him a new HP agreement on a shiny new car - the salesman advised him 'simple just stop paying finance company 1, now pay finance company 2 for new one, and let finance company 1 take the car away by repossession'.

 

I dont even need to tell you what he decided to do.

 

He stopped paying finance company 1 and they passed in to a debt collection agency although i cant recall if we got a notice of assignment, it was originally sold on to LRC and the LRC sold it to Apex Credit Management, i called them (Apex) up in the process of getting everything under control and set up a new payment plan with them as per the financial statement of what we can afford, so far so good.

 

This has been fine for the last 2 years or so, until now... you see finance company 1 never collected the old car. never mentioned it ever again, they only wanted the outstanding balance which was subsequently sold on and we've recieved no correspondance further on the matter from them.

Debt collector company (Apex) though have been more than vocal, for some reason they have called us up and asked him to increase payment to them (fair enough it was expected at some point) trouble is they've now gotten quite nasty about it...

 

Point 1 they're trying to make... can someone please clarify...

 

According to them as the original debt they have bought was a HP agreement then this is a priority debt not a non priorty as we originally had it listed on the financial statement from the CAB and so they want more money - my understanding is if the debt has been sold and we have confirmation in those numerous letters that the HP agreement has been terminated then they should have no preference over anyone else and his CURRENT HP agreement would be the priority?

 

I've spoken to them on the phone and the guy from the debt collector has insisted this debt IS priority and that they've (i quote) NOT bought the debt as in the amount but bought the HP AGREEMENT my husband originally signed and therefor IT IS STILL RUNNING. Eh? I asked if my hubby has signed a new HP agreement with them and to send me the paperwork proving this, obviously they cant but are absolutely 100% ademant that the HP agreement still is up and running as they have bought it from finance company 1. Its not the debt they have control of but the actual live agreement - which i have letters telling me it was originally terminated by finance company 1.

 

They have asked that he pay up a reduced settlement figure OR reverts back to his ORIGINAL agreement amount of 148 quid a month, not possible even if he WAS still working, our entire creditors dont even get that between them BEFORE the troubles we're having at the moment - our current financial statement has our creditors having minus payments as we owe out more than getting in!

 

We can only pay back what we can afford right? well. here is the bad decision. My hubby gave the original car from finance company 1 away after months of it sitting on the drive gathering dust.

He gave it to a family member and its since been sold, and then part ex'd for something else. He's no idea where it is now.

I TOLD him at the time but hey what do i know, i only deal with all the fallout right? He thought as finance company 1 didnt want it and wasnt prepared to accept it back he'd be fine. yeah right.

 

Well, our friend the debt collection agency have gotten wind of this and are now demanding the terms above or they will seek possession of the car and who knows what will happen...

 

If he either pays the reduced figure 1200 or continues with the 148 per month then they will agree to do nothing more about it.... my question is would it need to be finance company 1 that recovers the car and takes him to court or can the debt company do it as continually threatened, they told him on the phone today - we've had no further communications from the original finance company??

 

We've explained the financial situation to them today and they're calling back at 11am tomorrow for a desision, they say we can send a new request for a reduced payment with a financial statement (with our new circumstances) but it wont make any difference to their action and they wont accept it.

 

TBH i'm at a loss with it, i've tried and tried for years to keep things going in the right direction but i think he's over a barrel with this one....

 

any comments would be fantastic.

[joedee2k]

At the moment i've drafted up a letter stating our circumstances have changed and here's a new offer of payment in line with what we can afford. (Apex have previously told me on the phone that 'legally your creditors can only accept what you can afford' this was in the context of them becoming a 'priority debt' getting more money and all our other creditors having a reduced payment, surely this applies to them too?!)

 

And also that further contact will be made once our situation has improved etc.

 

Also a request that in the future can all communication on the matter be put in writing, its not nice to be threatened by them with court and try to keep some cool/dignity.

[Alphageek]

Do you have copies of the original HP agreement(s)?

[joedee2k]

i've got a folder with correspondence etc in, i have the notice of assignment to Apex from original company and the letter from finance company stating termination and i shall have to dig out the other paperwork for the HP agreement, i do believe we have it though...

[Pinky69]

First of all don't speak to them on the phone - ever. They will only tell you a pack of lies and abuse you. Insist that everything is in writing and if they call don't answer their security questions and put the phone down. If they keep phoning after that, there is a harassment letter you can send them. This is NOT a priority debt and they have no power to make you pay anything - only a court can do that. They can also not take the car if one-third of the payments have been made without a court order (in theory - I know it is not there). Nor can they send anyone to the door without your permission. If they do, you can tell them they have 30 seconds to leave or you will call the police. Apex don't want your car - they want your money. Scan and post the agreement up if possible and we will have a alook and see if it is enforceable.

Now don't worry about it and get a good night's sleep.

[Bazooka Boo]

OK it is very late and I am just about to retire, but there are a number of questions in relation to your predicament.

 

I am almost certain that by the morning they will have been answered, but from experience, Priority debts are, Rent, Council Tax, Heating/water bills, and court fines/parking tickets/speeding fines, basically anything that you owe the government and can land you in Jail, is an utmost 'Priority' to pay.

 

These idiots are not a priority debt, if all you can afford to pay them is £1 a month, and they are that greedy that they threaten you with legal action, then you tell them to take you to court, because the judge will only ever make you pay what you can afford.

 

They know this, which is why they always threaten people with it in the hope that alleged debtors don't know their rights and will simply pay up without even questioning it!

 

Send them the Prove it letter...

[300]

Be sure not to over estimate what you can afford £0.50 or £1 is fine. Benefits are not enough to pay the bills and are designed that way. There are other options to slow things down if you think your situation is not going to improve. See the Prove it letter... above send them off and get back here with the responses.

[joedee2k]

thank you for the replies, i was going to write that last night but sleep got the better of me.

We wont be answering the call to Apex this morning at 11am, i was going to send this letter off via e-mail and post today... just to give them some communication from us.

 

Dear Sir or Madam

Account number: xxx

 

I am writing in respect of the above account

Currently we are paying £27.00 per month as per our financial statement and have maintained this agreement with no breaks in payment. This is the maximum we could afford on the income we had available per month, since then our circumstances have changed and we are now in financial hardship

 

I have enclosed a new financial statement due to this change in our circumstances after an ongoing temporary loss of (hubby's name's) employment, our revised offer of a token payment is included.

 

We currently are claiming a means tested benefit via Income Based Job Seekers Allowance and once our circumstances change again we will contact you again to issue a further financial statement

 

Please can all further communication on this matter be made in writing.

 

I look forward to a favourable response

Yours faithfully

 

I'm going to have a look this morning and dig out the HP agreement he signed, i'm 90% sure we have it somewhere... and i'll post it on here, i'll be back with it shortly..

 

Can we still send a Prove it letter even though we've spoke about and not disputed the debt to them over the phone?

I know someone mentioned that Apex are not interested in the car, would it be Apex who can start repossession proceedings on it though - worst case scenario, i would have thought that it would only be the original finance company we no longer deal with as it was THEM who he HP'd the car from NOT Apex

Edited August 15, 2009 by joedee2k

[jed52]

Joedee, I know you have had lots of replies to your predicament, but I notice you have sent them more than 1 financial statement. It might look like you are trying your best to co-operate with them but you are under no legal obligation to send this info. Only a court can demand to see your income and expenditure. good luck. jed

[joedee2k]

interesting, see i didnt actually know this. They originally got a financial statement ages ago when the £27 was originally set up, i wont be sending them a further one then! they can just have the letter stating we're getting IB job seekers allowance and to offer a token payment and see what comes back.

[Bazooka Boo]

The simple fact that you are paying them anything at all, will in the eyes of the courts show you are willing to pay this debt and are not trying to avoid it.

 

So if they persist with threats of court, then tell them 'OK, I'm free next thursday!'

Because they know full well, that they will not get any more than what you are saying you can afford to pay them.

 

Boo;)

[joedee2k]

right i have a copy of what got signed it has his signature on it but not theirs... i also have a copy of the letter saying the hire was terminated and a letter giving details of why they wouldnt accept a VT and in this it also mentions the termination of the HP agreement by them.

If i scan them and take out all sensitive information should i just post them on here..?

[Huff&Puff]

Yes, please do.

[joedee2k]

coming up shortly...

[joedee2k]

right they're just uploading to my photobucket, hope they come out okay to be read... i've took out all information i can see on the letters with hubby's identity etc but left the finance company info in.

[joedee2k]

right this link is to the letter telling hubby that the HP has been terminated by them, he got a couple of these after default notices and cleared his account and carried on as normal..

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0001.jpg

[joedee2k]

this is the expaination of why they wouldnt accept a VT on the account..

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0002.jpg

 

I think you need to click 'full size' to be able to view properly..

[joedee2k]

this is the first page of the 5 page document he signed...

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0003.jpg

[joedee2k]

page 2 which is the same as page 1 by the looks, if these are too small i can look at changing them somehow...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0004.jpg

[joedee2k]

page 3, the bit he signed, there is no agreement number or anything on any of it, the only bits i've taken out are in black.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0005.jpg

[joedee2k]

the last two pages just look like a copy of terms and conditions.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0006.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/scan0007.jpg

[postggj]

Afternoon Joe

 

This Is My Old Friends The Funding Co

 

First, Tell Me, Do You Have Aby Ppi Or Any Other Micky Mouse Insurance Products

 

Next Thing

 

As Normal You Have An Arangement Fee

 

Now They Have Sliped Up On Credit Facility Fee As Well

 

Then A Purchess Fee

 

Add Those Fee Up Over The Term Of The Loan At The High Apr Is A Nice Fat Profit

 

Forget The Arangement Fee, What You Need To Be Asking Is For An Explanation On The Credit Facility Fee. What Is It And Also The Purchess Fee For Which You Are Paying Interest.

You Only Pay This If You Decide To Keep The Car At The End Of The Loan, Call It A Termination Fee

 

Both These Are A Charge For Credit And Should Not Be Paying Apr

 

You Need To Send A Letter By Recorded Delievery To The Funding Co For An Explnation On The Points Raised

 

At The Top Of The Letter You Need To Put

 

To Be Delt With Via Your Complaints Procedure

 

You Are Prob Totally Confused But Fire Away And Ill Explain

[IdaInFife]

do you still have the dafult notice? can you post that up

 

ida x

[joedee2k]

hi there,

 

No we have no PPI on this agreement but included in our other debts that we are not being chased for and paying monthly he does have a funding corp HP loan which did include PPI, that vehicle WAS allowed to be sucessfully VT'd but they then stung him for the PPI balance remaining in full (this is now with another DCA) i have a copy of THAT agreement also if you would like me to post it, its almost illegible though as he signed a one page fax originally and the bit about the PPI not allowing to be cancelled is so small and distorted that we didnt even see it until the vehicle was VD'd and they wrote to him about it demanding the money.

 

I see what you are saying though about the credit facility fee and purchase fee, i'd like to add up that profit over 38 months @ 41.3% apr!

[postggj]

This Biz About Not Being Able To Cancel Ppi Is Pure Hog Wash

 

As A Norm Ppi Can Be Cancelled Up To 30 Days On The Agreement

 

Even That Is Dubiouse

 

Tell Me

 

What Dca Is That With

 

The Termination Figure On An Agreement Is Just That, A Termination Figure To End The Agreement Including Any Ppi

 

I Know The Funding Co Dont Use Multiple Agreements On One Finance Agreement

 

So That Termination Figure Is The Only Point To Reach To Cancel The Agreement

 

You Have Been Shafted

 

Time To Get Your Money Back Plus 8%apr

 

Shame This Dca