Barclaycard/Mercers

[ilovecats]

Hi all

 

I have read many threads on here in relation to Barclaycard/Mercers etc., and have myself received many threatening letters from them, to which I have now replied a number of times telling them that I do not give them permission to visit my home, so on and so forth.

 

My question is around the fact, that they do not respond to any of my letters of offers of pro-rata payments whatsoever, I feel like I am just wasting ink, paper and stamps sending anything to them.

 

I am making fairly generous payment offers of nearly £100 on my 2 accounts with them, but still they just keep sending me the same threatening letter with a different twist to it each time, without even acknowleging the 4 previous letters I have sent with the offers.

 

What can I do about this, I am not trying to run away from my debt, I think I could step away from this as my original accounts were set up in 1994 so I think they may not have the original signed credit agreement as I know has been mentioned on here, but I want to pay my debt off, I know its partly their fault for the way they just kept upping my credit limit, but after all I spent the money so want to repay it, I just can't afford to pay the hefty payments and arrears that I now have.

 

Please help, any advice most welcome.

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

There is nothing to stop you sending a CCA requests for both a/cs to see whether they are indeed legally enforceable. If they are not it puts you in a strong position to negotiate on your terms if you feel morally liable to repay them. You would be able to negotiate a full and final offer or even repayments on your terms using the CCA to beat them with.

 

Also you could send them a SAR to calculate any unfair charges they have made which you can reclaim in the event that the agreements are enforceable.

[waterminx]

Hi - this is a timely thread for me. I hope you dont mind my post - but I think its relevant.

 

I have cca'd Barclaycard on my two accounts - and got the ubiquitous copy t's&c's as they are wont to do.

 

I then SAR'd them - and now have received copies of statements that only go back as far as 2003, with a letter stating "This information we have enclosed relating to this account is all that we hold".

 

The hounding from Mercers/calders has ceased but, bizarrely, they have referred just one account (the lesser debt) to Westcots, who seem to be slightly mad (but I am no doctor). I am managing them - I dont think these debts have been 'sold on' - but merely referred.

 

So - its pretty clear that they dont have diddly-squat in terms of a cca for my accounts. Which is no surprise to me. I have a host of complaints to lodge against them when I get the will to do it, as well as the charges stuff.

 

But basically - what now?

 

All I need is time - time to get a job and get the money to pay these people. Its all I have ever asked for. I understand that when I get the money, I can offer a full and final settlement of some kind. But in the meantime - is there another letter or something I can send to keep them at arms length until that happy day arrives?

 

I am soooooo tired, its very very wearing isnt it!?

 

 

Cheers

Minx

[cerberusalert]

Have you sent the 'In dispute' letter to Wescot?; letter #17 The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

[ilovecats]

Hi thanks for your help.

 

I have now this morning had a letter from a company called "Debt Managers Ltd" for one of the accounts stating that I must pay the full amount immediately, if I cannot pay to call (I am not calling anyone) to set up a payment plan.

 

To write to them to set up a payment plan (as I have with others) seems the best solution to this especially compared to some of the actions taken by Mercers/Calders on other posts I have read here.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

[cerberusalert]

Send them the 'In Dispute' letter.

 

until an enforceable cca is provided you are within your legal right to cease payments. If they continue to pursue they will be in breach of OFT guidelines Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices - oft664

[waterminx]

Thanks Cerberusalert - to be sure -

I send the 'Failure to provide a copy of the agreement within the prescribed timescale' to Barclaycard.

And #17 - 'Letter when account has been passed on whilst agrement request is in dispute' to westcots....

 

Can I then just leave it until I get the dosh to pay them sommink???

 

thanks everso for all help

I feel a decent nights sleep may be on the cards tonight!!!

 

Cheers

m

[waterminx]

Uh Oh - I dont understand what I have to put in the you/your bit in the dispute letter??

 

help!!

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

Am generally not thick but am panicking slightly so not seeing straight!

ta

Minx

[waterminx]

SORRY - have worked it out now - doh!

[cerberusalert]

Can I then just leave it until I get the dosh to pay them sommink???

The whole point of sending the 'in dispute' letters is to put the a/c on a footing where it prevents them from continuing collection activities. By all means if you think you are morally obliged to pay them something either now or in the future, then do so. But remember DCAs are not moral themselves and in fact they would have only paid around 10% of the face value of the debt. If you are willing to pay someone just because they say you owe them money and they can't provide any evidence that you do, then I'll send you a couple of invoices too if you like.

[waterminx]

OH MY GOODNESS!!!! WOW!!

You know -I never thought the situation through to its logical conclusion! You dont when you are so stressed, do you??

Talk about a 'senior moment'!!

I am gobsmacked!

THANKYOU - consider yourself kissed!

Penny well and truly dropped now!

:D

 

Off to fight the other battles now - with real spring in my step!

 

Would MUCH rather give the dosh to this site rather than the b'stards that have made my life a bloody misery for 10 months or more now.

 

Onward and upward.... and, again,

 

THANKYOU

Minx

[cerberusalert]

I work on a simple formula;

 

No CCA = No Enforceable Agreement = No Payment

 

Not exactly rocket science but it works.

[waterminx]

Forgive me - I have been paying these buggers for more than 35 years. It gets to be a habit, y'know!

It never even crossed my mind that I wouldnt have to pay them, not for one second!

 

Sad, I know - you dont have to tell me.

 

[waterminx]

Ok - so now I have received a letter of some 3 pages where Bcard kindly 'explain' their interpretation of 'The Credit Consumer Act 1974' - strange - I thought it was the Consumer Credit Act??

I digress - they refuse to accept that the account is in dispute and give me a 'business as usual' bit at the end. They also say they wont enter into anymore correspondence on the issue.

 

I understand this isnt a really unusual letter - but what is my response to it? I have had enough of giving them more time, I sent my CCA request in May and have sent three letters chasing. I have received the stuff from my SAR so I plan now to just sit and work out any refund due.

 

I just want to send one final 'bog off' letter.

 

ALSO - very very strangely - they are now only responding/writing to me about ONE of my accounts. There are two. They passed only one of them to Westcots and have not responded AT ALL wrt the larger of the two accounts.

Do I read anything into that or have they just balls-d up their records?

 

Sigh - but hey with the help of this site - nearly THERE!!!

minx

[bazaar]

Hello waterminx, just concentrate on the account they are trying to persue. Theres 3 things you can do, either wait until they try and start proceedings, in which case youd request via CPR 31 the executed agreement ( not a copy as sent to you via CCA request).

Or you take the bull by the horns and go for a CPR31.16 request, which will is a legal request for documents. Youd specifically ask for the executed agreement, ( which they most likely wont have).

The other option is SAR but thisll cost you £10, however, youd be able to work out all of those charges theyve levied and you can make a counter claim.

 

Im just editing this bit, You need to think very carefully about going down the CPR route first. It may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie and wait for them to make a move, It'll be a lot of hassle with the calls they make etc. but chances are they know you'll defend any action so sit tight.

Edited August 27, 2009 by bazaar
Edited

[waterminx]

Thanks Bazaar.

Well I already SAR'd them and have the pile of doo doo for both accounts. Actually am glad cos I had lost one of the letters crucial to my making a particular complaint and they have sent me a copy

 

So - I think I am in the sleeping dogs/sit tight bit now. There is no doubt in my mind that they have absolutely diddly squat in the shape of an executable agreement. I dont fancy making any more waves right now - I am trying to find a job and this is not helping AT ALL!!!

I think the only thing I might need to do (to be on the safe side) is write to Westcots to inform them that this account is in dispute. The fact that B/card does not acknowledge that is something I cant help.

 

Thanks again - I will crack on with working out any charges that need to be refunded.

 

What larks!!!

:D:D

[bazaar]

Yes write to Wescots, maybe use the harrassment letter to warn them off, state you are dealing with Barclays directly.

[waterminx]

I have now received copies of agreements for both barclaycard visa and mastercard accounts. Both are missing some key 'ingredients' for an enforceable doc. The mastercard one is particularly amusing - it looks like the back of a fag packet!!!

 

I also have received a letter - separately - telling me:

 

"Please note that we have already set out, in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already provided to you have discharged out [our] obligations under the Act. We are under no legal obligation to provide any further documentation to you in this regard."

 

No more threats, however, and no more calls. Letting sleeping dogs lie for now.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[waterminx]

 

 

or maybe these are best:

 

http://s634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/watertrollop/?action=view&current=BarclaycardVMCARDApp001.jpg

 

http://s634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/watertrollop/?action=view&current=BarclaycardVisaApp001.jpg

Edited September 13, 2009 by waterminx
alternative options for images.

[waterminx]

So- after some months - I now hear from Moorcrofts about my barclaycard visa but again nothing about Mastercard. The CCA is so ludicrous its not a surprise. I am cool about that.

 

But with the visa thing - Moorcrofts have sent a letter threatening litigation. I havent responded - I have been busy, frankly. So far, and this was sent a few weeks ago, I have heard nothing more than this threat. (which is bizarrely printed using the comic sans font - its hard to take it seriously).

 

I am assuming this is just another bit of sabre rattling - an empty threat - I cant do anything unless they actually file for a court battle.

No more calls tho - simply ignoring them seems to have made them go away eventually.

 

Does anyone know if there is some kind of time frame for this - I mean - if they really mean to take me to court do they have to do this within a certain time?

 

Its really annoying that Barclaycard (and others) just seem to pass the job from on DCA to another - just as you get one sorted - they move on. Its making the process go on and on - is there a 'pee or get off the pot' type letter I can send them?

 

as usual - thanks for any advice

Minx

[cerberusalert]

I'm sorry your previous post was missed, don't know how that happened but the good news is neither of those you've posted are enforceable.

 

As for Morecrap, send the muppets this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[waterminx]

YOU BEAUTY!!!!!

 

I cant wait to earn enough money to enbale me throw a few bob at this site, seriously - just getting a decent nights sleep is worth a fortune!!!

 

I think I will also send this to Fenton Cooper - who followed a Rockwell threat with an 'Offer of Repayment' - whereby M&S are offering me 'a significant reduction in the outstanding balance'.

 

YEEEEEES!

thankyou so much - again! :D:D

Minx

[waterminx]

Hellooo

 

Well - I sent this letter to Barclaycard on 22nd March and got a 'Litigation warning' in the post dated 25th march. This was from Midas Legal Services - and I am thinking this was just a routine automatic letter thingy that just wasnt stopped from being sent, if you see what I mean.

 

Since then, nothing!

 

So - is it now a waiting game? How can i bring an end to this? I have a similar situation with M&S and Mcard. I used the letter on M&S but havent heard a dicky bird about the MCard for months and months.

 

I would like a 'sue me by XX or else we are done' letter. Is that possible?

 

cheers

Minx

[cerberusalert]

I'm afraid it's a waiting game whilst they play 'pass the parcel' amongst themselves.

[waterminx]

Thanks Cyberuseralert for your quick response. Am so frustrated - I am ok when I can take action and rubbish at the waiting game... just pants. I really want to go on the offensive and end this ..... aaarrrrghh...

 

Sigh - oh well - at least the calls have stopped and the post is lighter than it was.

 

Cheers - again - Minx