Pen v Scottish Power.Overcharging/meter problems

[Pen]

I am in the court arena at the moment with my electric supplier. And in my experience it is pointless seeking legal action for SAR.

 

To cut a long story short, for many years i could not find out who my supplier was because since buying my house i have never received a bill despite all my endeavors to find out who my supplier was as i wrote to them all asking if was their customer. They all wrote back saying no.

 

Then out of the blue I received a bill for £2,500 from one of the companies who had wrote to me denying i was their customer. They told me i needed to pay in full or they would get a get a warrant to install a pre payment meter.

 

Whilst i was arguing the amount they claimed I owed I received a letter from them stating they were going to apply for a warrant to install a pre payment meter. So I paid the bill in full but by this time they had gotten the warrant and would not cancel the meter as it had been ordered and set to recover £10 a week.

 

When i eventually got it removed a year later the bloke who removed it said the meter was showing a credit of £1000 we had forgotten about it taking £10 a week off a bill I had paid in full! but could i get this money back, no chance so i refused to pay another bill until it was sorted.

 

They tried to get another warrant but this time I defended my case and the judge throw their request out, however 7 days later my supplier still wrote to me stating they had obtained a warrant which was totally a lie.

 

I wrote to the supplier requesting my SAR but they only sent me half of it.

 

Whilst this dispute over my bill was going on they filed in another court for the amount they are now saying i owe them which is £1,200 which is where we stand now.

 

I filed and asked for the case to be struck out because of non compliance with my SAR request since i could not say how much i owed them if anything. but at a hearing last Friday the magistrate said that none compliance with SAR is not a reason for striking out their claim as the supplier does not keep information of a personal nature. Instead he has ordered my supplier to supply the court and I with a statement of account within 14 days, from which i then have 14 days to file my defence.

 

Sooooo I know need to write a defence and would like to know other then the over payment what else i could include.?????

 

Could i include the higher cost of fuel due to being forced to use a prepayment meter???? if so how would I work out the higher cost i paid and how would i word it in my defence???? is it worth a try since no one else has maybe this is the perfect opportunity to try it out what do other members think???? would it be fair since i was only on a PP meter for 12 months to calculate the difference in the previous years bill taking into account a percentage for annual increases to determine how much i was overcharged.??? just a thought.

 

Would I have been charged court costs for the warrant they tried to get and failed ?????? and since i had to stay at home to make sure they didn't (as my meter is outside could i claim) should i include the letter they wrote stating the had obtained one as it is purely deception on their part.

 

would there have been any other hidden chargers do you think ????

 

sorry it was not a short story after all was it! but i could really do with some help on writing my defence and on what to include in it and i would be more then happy to act as a a guinea pig to try out the higher costs involved with a pre payment meter in court arena to see what reception it would receive.

thanks guy's

Pen

 

PS with regards the SAR, the magistrate read out a paragraph from the DPA, i can't remember the full wording but basically the judge was saying there would be nothing on their files that could cause me any financial harm. although i disagree and stated that under the act they have to provide me with any details they have on me and since they are trying to get a judgment against me which would cause me harm if they won!! the judge was having none of it. he said my data information would not help my case but a statement of account may.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Pen

[Pen]

is there anyone out there lol!!!!!!

[kia]

erm i11 bump martin as im not sure about this pen as not done it yet p1us i got my fob off 1etter yesterday so im in same boat now bring on next step xkia

[Pen]

thanks Kia! it's not worth me writting a letter to them since i am now in the court with it what i think i need to do is include it within my defence and hope the judge agrees.

[MARTIN3030]

In one respect I can see you Judges confusion-Subject matter is personal to the data subject,but should include all data that relates to the subject-including account info.

A Court can award up to £1000 per breach of the first principles under the Data Protection Act.It is at the Courts discretion.

 

It can be difficult to determine a burden of proof for harm or distress,but faced with legal enforcement,hostile action,and demands for payments that you believed you were not accountable for,are not unreasonable grounds to be citing.

 

You were additionally financially deprived by their overcharging/mistakes.

So although within itself the non compliance of a subject access request is not a matter for tort,the lack of it has frustrated your attempts to put together a case which would enable you to properly put your case together which would show it.

[MARTIN3030]

Have got a bit on today,but will look at this later-when is hearing ?

[Pen]

Thanks Martin

 

the supplier was given 14 days from the 7/8/09 to supply a statement of account, we have 14 days from the date we receive it to lodge a defence with the court.

 

I agree with you that we needed our SAR to put together a defence but! since they would not provide it we used their non-compliance as our reason to have the case struck out! we cannot be expected to take what they say we owe them without proof can we!! but the judge disagreed with the need for SAR stating that the burden of proof was on the supplier not on us. but without the SAR are we still able to defend our case.

 

A statement of account should show everything connected with our account which is what we need but!!! it will not show that they tried to deceive us in claiming they had a warrant ( applying for a warrant and having it dismissed was not even included in their defence) nor all the other underhanded tricks they used.

[MARTIN3030]

Usually the costs they incur for applying and being granted a warrant,are added to your account,they will in almost all cases indicate this in the pre notification to you that they will be applying for one.

In the case of a warrant for having a pre payment meter fitted,I assume these costs would be added to arrears and collected through the meter top ups.

Yes while its agreed that the account statements within themselves may not throw up all that you need,a request for letters of communications,and data sharing or processing details that involve both you and third parties may offer something more-including of course the letter seeking or being granted a warrant,that was subsequently cancelled or else not enforced.

[Pen]

well obviously my supplier thought he was going to win in court last week because their solicitor has sent us a statement of costs and so far it's £1,297 i thought no costs were involved in small claim cases!!! martin can they claim this?? also with regards whether i should go for the extra cost of them installing pre paid meter what do you think I should do ??

[MARTIN3030]

Judges in small claims cases will often frown at Solicitors being used.

Costs are discretionary and are not a foregone conclusion.

In most cases Judges will not rule on costs against a LIP-unless of course there are exceptional circumstances such as abuse of process.

(Where a case was brought with little chance to succeed etc)

Personally I would go for costs that are in proportion to theirs that you would be entitled to claim.

 

In many cases costs will be reserved for main hearings.

In one of my cases thats happened 4 times-at each stage the costs go higher I think last one stood at £2300.

I would say that you have nothing to lose by asking for the refund of the costs they levied on you for the meter.

You should include that as a sep figure in your costs schedule,so that it can be seen.

Its possible the Judge will allow it,may award a portion or else refuse.

But you should include it since you was billed for it.

 

You are entitled to submit your own costs as a LIP

That should always be done before any hearing and filed to both other side and Court.

[Pen]

Thanks Martin, so i need to include the schedule with my defence? to be honest i am not looking at claiming costs just getting this balance wiped out as i assume i will owe them something even if it's only this quarters bill ( they amount they say I owe is the amount to date so I'm unsure if it's included or not ) and if i can do that by adding any chargers they have levied to my account in the form of warrants etc that's what i will do!

 

Martin, when i get the statement of account and i know more of what i am suppose to owe them if anything! would it be possible if you have the time and don't mind that could help me with my defence please ???

[MARTIN3030]

Yes sure pm me when you are ready-or hit the red triangle report to flag it up for my attention.

Your costs could offset anything you are liable in arrears-you are entitled to claim those costs so why not ?

 

And lets not forget-if they are happy to be submitting costs at £1200+ then you should not be having any second thoughts in doing your own schedule.

[Pen]

Thanbks Martin that will be a great help cheers.

 

Just hunted out most of my bills.

 

on the day they put the prepayment meter in and switched my package from a standard package to a prepayment package the cost per unit Wh@P went from 8.200 to 9.864. This seems pretty high, does anyone know if this increase would be the cost of just having a PP meter of would this be the amount per unit they are taken for arrears??? I think i need to understand what my bills are actually telling me lol!!

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agreed.

I also think you should have your own thread to progress things.

I will move your posts and associated posts from here and re-title.

 

 

oops almost forgot-who is the Elec supplier ????

[Pen]

Thanks Martain. my supplier is scottish power.

 

I have received a copy of all my bills form 02/07 to the current date.

however thats all they have sent me as a stament of account . is this what the court would be expecting???

 

I would have thought the statement of account would have included all the dates i made a card payment, plus any changes to my meter settings. ie additional chargers to cover any arrears but i have none of that.

 

I now have 14 days to make a defence but again i don't have the information i need to make it so i am back were i started.

 

can I write to the court requesting more information!!!! instead of submitting a defence.

 

thanks Martain

[zazen.warrior]

The unit price would not be increased to cover the debt, it would be claimed as a set amount each week.

[MARTIN3030]

I think its a case of submitting an Embarrassed defence on the basis that all the info you requested from the other side to enable you to properly serve,has not been provided to you.

I will confer with fellow team for some thoughts.

Whats the date you need to submit by ?

[42man]

I agree with Martin....an embarrassed defence would be the way to go....can I ask what the Particulars Of The Claim are ? (don't be too specific with numbers)

[42man]

I'm not an expert on these but common sense dictates...highlight the points you have paperwork for, inconsistent dates, disputes...

 

If you can check their tariffs too....

 

Then request the judge order the claimant to produce what you need as far as paperwork / payments etc goes...

 

I xxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxx am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

(list the points)

 

Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of any breach on the part of the Defendant. Alternatively, the Defendant avers the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

The Claimant's claim to be entitled to £xxxx for debt, to statutory interest or to any monetary or other relief of any kind is denied

The defendant has made more than a reasonable effort to obtain information via a Subject Access Request made under the Data Protection Act etc etc..

 

I BELIEVE THE FACTS SET OUT IN THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

Edited August 20, 2009 by 42man

[Pen]

Thanks 42man. thats a great help. I have to have it all writtern and posted tomorrow. we have only just come back of holiday yesterday hence i have not been able to reply sooner.

 

I do have referance in fact 2 writtern evidence to state that the meter was set to take £5.00 per week of arrears and another one for £11.00. yet all the bills they have sent me are for when the pre paid meter was removed.

[MARTIN3030]

Did you agree to the 5.00 a week collection of arrears ?

For those on low incomes I know that arrears can only be set to take a maximum of £2.70 per week

[Pen]

hi martin, no we didn't agree we were told how much it was being set at. I am writting the statement now. should i make comment to the code of practice whereby i should have only been billed for the first 12 months when i could not find my supplier???

[MARTIN3030]

Yes Absolutely.

[Pen]

thanks!

[Pen]

Ohh I just don't believe it!!!

 

we sent our defence,on the lines of what 42 man suggested as I thought it was very good basically saying that the claimants have not sent us the information for us to defend our case. we also sent a copy of the code of practice stating that SP had signed up to the agreement of not taking more then payment for the previous bill, we also sent evidence that they had been debiting £10 a week of a debit i had paid through the card meter.

 

Today we get a letter from the court saying our defence has been struck out as disclosing no grounds for defence!!!! what !!

 

the claimant shall file at court and send a copy to the defendant of all statement f account showing all credits and debits since inception of the account to the date of issue of proceedings by 4pm on the 21st August 2009.

 

The Defendant shall file at court and serve on the claimant a defence setting out the grounds on which all or any part of the claim is disputed within 14 days of receipt of the documents in the above paragraph.

 

In default of filing and service of defence by the date stated the claimant shall be entitled to enter a judgement for the amount claimed and costs.

 

How could we have lost!!!!! it's like he hasn't even bothered to read it.

 

pen