ISA and free trip - HELP!

[mikexlr8]

I am claiming JSA (since Jan) and have won a free trip abroad. Its a weekend trip all expensives paid. My next sign-on day is Monday, but I won't be back in the country until lunch time on Tuesday.

 

I hear that if I tell them the truth they will stop my benefit and I will have go through the entire ball ache of signing off and signing back on.

 

Has anyone been abroad before while on JSA?

 

The devil inside me says list a home address of someone (funeral/wedding cover story) on the going away form and perhaps my mobile number.

 

Any suggestions... I haven't had a holiday for over 6 years.

[ErikaPNP]

It is correct that you will need to sign off and then back on again if you are going abroad and it isn't connected to actively seeking work as per the conditions of claim.

 

If you choose to be untruthful and they do find out (there are no guarantees that they will - but there again, no guarantees that they won't either), they retain the right to sanction (stop) your benefit for up to 26 weeks for not fulfilling the conditions of your claim, and knowingly so.

 

My advice in these circumstances is if you choose to be a devil, be prepared for the heat of hell. Life's not easy when a sanction is imposed and money you were depending on isn't there to live on.

[natalie]

Its a weekend away, is not like you are going on a 3 monh cruise.

 

If it was me, I would tell them that I am going to be away visiting family for the weekend and ask if I can sign on the following day instead.

 

I disagree that just because you are claiming JSA that you have to give them every single detail of every move you make. Big Brother springs to mind. Its none of their sodding business what you do with your weekends and one day isnt going to make much difference in the current employment situation.

[antone]

Its a weekend away, is not like you are going on a 3 monh cruise.

 

If it was me, I would tell them that I am going to be away visiting family for the weekend and ask if I can sign on the following day instead.

 

I disagree that just because you are claiming JSA that you have to give them every single detail of every move you make. Big Brother springs to mind. Its none of their sodding business what you do with your weekends and one day isnt going to make much difference in the current employment situation.

 

What's with all this "to hell with it!" advice round here recently?

 

I advise the OP to read Erika's post, which is, as always, spot on.

[natalie]

If the DWP was efficient and dealt with claims quickly then perhaps my view would be different, but chances are the claim would be held up for a minimum of 4 weeks for the sake of signing on a day late.

 

Perhaps the "to hell with it!" attitude is because people have had enough.

 

I have just informed the benefits agency and tax credits people that my severely disabled partner has moved in with me.... the only way my benefits might change is to go up..... all my money has been stopped for a minimum of 4 weeks while they reassess it... what we are supposed to live on for that 4 weeks is a mystery.

[antone]

Sure. But there's no harm in offering factual information about the possible consequences of benefit fraud, and potentially a lot of harm in saying to people "Don't worry - just do it."

 

Most people probably get away with it, but it's not good to be the one who doesn't.

[natalie]

I didnt suggest there was any harm in offering him factual information. I just gave my opinion of what I would do.

 

I wasnt saying, "this is what you should do, and ignore everything everyone else says"

 

Surely the whole point of posting a thread is to get various opinions so that you can then make a decision yourself.

 

Its hardly benefit fraud, its a weekend the OP is going away for, not the working week.

[Jack Daniels]

natalie

why is there a four week reassessment on your benefit

have you changed benefit

are you on Income Support

Edited August 14, 2009 by Jack Daniels

[natalie]

Because my circumstances have changed (I was living on my own with my 2 children before), and now I live with my partner (who is disabled and is waiting for a decision on DLA and mobility allowance, claim made May 10th)

 

I wasnt claiming Income Support because I didnt know I could until yesterday. My partner has just been refused ESA because even though he hasnt been able to work much over the last 2 years because of his health, he used his savings rather than claiming. I'm claiming Incapacity Benefit and we have been told that because of that he cant claim ESA income based.

 

Its my housing benefit that has been stopped, and my child tax credits, which as my daughter is also disabled, is a large proportion of my income. I informed them about the chance mid July, I still havent been sent the forms to put in a new claim, even though I have now phoned them 3 times to ask where they are.

 

So at the moment we are all living on my incapacity benefit, and the family allowance. It took the HB 10 weeks to sort out payment when I moved in here, so my landlady isnt going to be happy about my rent being late so I have to find it from somewhere.

[Jack Daniels]

You can claim Income Support, you call the contact centre to make the claim , forms are not usually sent out, i thinks its 0800 66 77 88

 

why dont you ask for backdating of your claim its worth a try, there are quite a lot of new claims outstanding but I thought the turn around was quicker then four weeks, chase it up

 

but why has your child tax credits been stopped that might be worth another call it should remain the same by what you have said

 

Phone Housing Benefit to tell them you have claimed IS and they should wait to the claim is processed

 

What rate DLA are you on, did anyone ever advise you not to claim Income Support whilst you were single, or did you try

[ErikaPNP]

I disagree that just because you are claiming JSA that you have to give them every single detail of every move you make

The conditions of claim are what a person signs up to in agreement when they make their claim. Whether or not a person thinks it is morally right is irrelevent if you have signed up to receive the benefit.

 

I don't like it that I had to divulge my personal bank statements, rent account, childminding contract and various other private documents to the Tax Credit Office, when I was investigated for fraud. I was unhappy because what I pay for rent, council tax, utilities and what is written within my childminding contract is private. It has no bearing on the calculation of a Tax Credit award. They do not take these matters into consideration when calculating a claim. They wanted these documents as they were investigating whether I was living with a partner. They wanted to see if anyone's name appeared on these documents other than my name solely.

 

But if I wanted to continue to receive my award without a penalty, I had to provide these documents. A condition of my claim is that I must declare if I begin to live with a partner. And if they are investigating such, I must provide all the information they ask for to conduct their investigation. I didn't like it but that's completely irrelevant. It's my part of the deal.

 

The child tax credit would have been stopped because Natalie began to live with a partner. When there is a change regarding a partner, either one moving in or one moving out, the claim isn't updated. It stops altogether and a new claim must be made.

 

Natalie I had this issue but in reverse. When my ex and I split up, I rang TCOP to inform them that I would like to change the claim to that of a single claimant. They thanked me for informing them and that was it. Till I went to pay my childminder and discovered no tax credits had been paid in. When I rang to ask why I was informed they had closed my claim and I had to re-apply. I asked why my claim had been closed when all I had done was ring with a change of circumstances and was duly informed that when there is a change involving a partner going on or coming off a claim, the claim is closed and a new application must be made.

 

I waited a fortnight for the new application pack which never arrived then I rang and they issued a new one. I waited 3 months, ringing them once a fortnight to check progress only to be told over and over again that my claim was "being processed and they were unable to give timescales". The fact that my childminder was all but ready to end the contract due to waiting for her payment which in turn meant I would likely have to pack in my job and claim benefit, and probably receive a small claims court summons for unpaid childcare fees, didn't seem to phase them much.

 

I got it sorted by going to my local inland revenue office and requesting an "interim" payment to at least pay mu childminder. When I went there it was discovered that someone had made an incorrect entry on the computer system which made it look like I had TWO live claims. If I hadn't gone to the local IR office it would never have been resolved.

 

Do you perhaps have a local IR that you could go to?

Edited August 14, 2009 by ErikaPNP

[sandysue103]

Obviously it is your choice as to whether you decide to tell the Jobcentre about your holiday. However, if you don't, then you will be receiving benefit that by law, you are not entitled to. Whether it is a weekend or working week does not make any difference because benefits are paid over seven days of the week. If you choose not to inform them and you are discovered then you have to be prepared for the potential consequences. If you are out for advice, then personally I would take the advice of the folk "in-the-know". I know it's a pain but if you choose to take the holiday then personally I would follow the regulations.

[ErikaPNP]

Agreed, Sue.

 

As I have stated previously I would never encourage a person to perform an action which may leave them open to financial vulnerability, and possibly a fraud marker.

[antone]

I didnt suggest there was any harm in offering him factual information. I just gave my opinion of what I would do.

 

I wasnt saying, "this is what you should do, and ignore everything everyone else says"

 

Surely the whole point of posting a thread is to get various opinions so that you can then make a decision yourself.

 

Its hardly benefit fraud, its a weekend the OP is going away for, not the working week.

 

It is clear benefit fraud. I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether or not it's moral or not - benefit rules don't always have much to do with morality, and that's not something I feel qualified to comment about.

 

But the end point is this: what was proposed is not allowed under JSA rules.

[installspark]

When you go on holiday whilst claiming JSA you are expected to be available to attend an interview with 48 hours notice, so if you decide to tell them you are staying at a UK address then there is the possibility they can call you on the Friday telling you that an interview has been arranged for the Monday which you must attend. If this happens then they will check with the employer that you attended. This is part of your Jobseekers Agreement.

 

Ultimately only you can decide which way you intend to go, but is it worth the risk of getting caught, having sanctions placed or potentially face investigation by the fraud team and being prosecuted??

[mikexlr8]

Cheers all for the responses. I know how I am going to handle this now.

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

Hi all,

I had heard you could go away for a little holiday. just thinking phone the jobcentre and ask if you can sign on when you get back i have done that in the past. things might have change since then but worth a call.

[antone]

Hi all,

I had heard you could go away for a little holiday. just thinking phone the jobcentre and ask if you can sign on when you get back i have done that in the past. things might have change since then but worth a call.

 

You can, if you are remaining within the UK and, as you say, you arrange it with your Jobcentre in advance. But if you're going abroad, it's different.

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

Hi Anton.

I must admit, then not shure about going abroad, i have only ever told them about going on holiday for a week they never asked were to thou.

[antone]

This is a big area of enforcement right now - they're putting up posters at airports and the like. It's quite possible that, in the past, they didn't ask you where you were going but now they almost certainly will.

 

This is one of the many things I'd like to see made explicitly clear as part of the claim process. It's pretty common for folks to go abroad for short periods of time.

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

Well Antone.

If thats the case people dont waste time even think of going abroad if they sign on.....END of.

[natalie]

Absolutely ridiculous! What if you have family abroad? Are you not allowed to see your family just because you were unlucky enough to lose your job?

 

Its not the dole dossers who know how to milk the system that will be bothered by this, just the genuine people who are already degraded by having to claim benefits in the first place, without being made to jump through hoops to satisfy some warped government protocol.

[antone]

Absolutely ridiculous! What if you have family abroad? Are you not allowed to see your family just because you were unlucky enough to lose your job?

 

Its not the dole dossers who know how to milk the system that will be bothered by this, just the genuine people who are already degraded by having to claim benefits in the first place, without being made to jump through hoops to satisfy some warped government protocol.

 

Well, I partly agree, I suppose. I mean, when you claim JSA you are stating that you are fit for, available for, and actively seeking employment for every day of your claim. So I think it's fair enough that people who are out of the country and not seeking work shouldn't get benefit for that time.

 

On the other hand, I'd like to see it arranged in such a way that payment could stop temporarily and then be reinstated. That is, you could declare a short absence, and all that would happen is that you wouldn't be paid for those days. The present system creates an incentive to lie, because signing off and back on again could leave someone without money for weeks.

[natalie]

On the other hand, I'd like to see it arranged in such a way that payment could stop temporarily and then be reinstated. That is, you could declare a short absence, and all that would happen is that you wouldn't be paid for those days. The present system creates an incentive to lie, because signing off and back on again could leave someone without money for weeks.

 

I wouldnt advocate anyone getting money they arent entitled to, but the system makes it so difficult for those genuinely in need it isnt surprising people choose to lie.

 

I have always been 100% completely upfront and honest with the benefits agency, and have accepted the various "administration errors" but the manner in which my partner, (who is severely disabled as a direct result of service in the armed forces, including serving in Bosnia) has been treated by the DWP makes me sick.

[ErikaPNP]

I agree that a person should be permitted to go abroad for a short while without it affecting their claim. A JSA claimant is permitted to holiday in the UK for a short period.

 

However the legislation is how it is, it is set by parliment and can't be set aside by the people who make decisions on a claim. They must uphold the legislation, and a claimant must also abide by it as a condition of receiving their benefit.

 

It may not be morally right but as I said previously, whether it is "felt" to be right is irrelevant if a person is caught out.

 

I do strongly think that this needs updating however the only people who are in a position to change it are parliment. The way to go about it is for your MP to raise it during their discussions.