rosa2009, caught using Mothers Freedom pass.

[Old-CodJA]

Very sound advice from Wriggler7 as usual and from the 'other side', I agree totally.

 

It is a fact that many people can (and do) settle these matters for themselves. Stick to the fundamentally important details of the case against you. Don't go looking for legal loopholes unless you are well versed in the relevant law.

 

If you feel that you are guilty and have checked what you are being charged with, are sure that you understand it clearly, write straight away and ask if you can be allowed to settle the matter by paying any fare due and all of the reasoinable administrative costs that have been incurred by the Rail Company so as to avoid prosecution and protect your good name.

 

If you are uncomfortable with trying to do it yourself and feel that you are not guilty, go and see a Solicitor who is local to you and who will very likely have an affordable fixed fee for a short consultation and a fixed charge for a one-off letter.

 

From the prosecutors point of view, those flash Solicitors tend to harden the resolve of the Rail Company to do the basics very well.

 

More often than not these cases will ultimately result in a more expensive out of Court settlement achieved by the Solicitor. Quite often they may still result in a conviction for their client, because the Solicitor may well advise a Defendant to change a plea to guilty at the last minute when they realise they aren't going to bully the Prosecutor into withdrawal and the evidence is strong enough.

 

That results in two hefty bills for the Defendant to pay. One to the Court for Fine, Costs & Compensation and a big wedge to the Solicitor.

 

It always reminds me of a note I once saw about a Vet's bill, which was headed: 'To curing your Dog until he died...'

 

.

[Wriggler7]

The 'warning' to 'flash' solicitors is that a railway prosecutor does nothing much else, he does a lot of it, and from observations, they do it well. Ask a railway prosecutor about section 25 road signs, and you may well get a blank look, but ask him about Woodard v Eastern Counties Railways (Crikey, hope I remembered that one right) and he is likley to give you a straight quote from the appeal Judge, and his home address.

 

I have recently been asked by our local chappy to run an eye over a very high handed letter from a very big law firm. (I do a lot of stuff for the price of a cup of tea) The letter missed the point entirely, quoting all sorts of very clever stuff about civil debts, totally missed the point that it is a criminal charge. Didn't even get the hint that the case is due to be heard very shortly at a Magistrates Court, not a County/small claims or whatever.

 

The quality of the headed notepaper would cause me to think that the letter will have cost around £120.00. And it would only be any good if it was perforated and tissue. I hadn't heard of the firm, but you can do much more with a phone now than just pressing button 'B', so I googled them. Very impressive portfolios. If you are the CEO of an international conglomerate, they will happily take foreign governments to Court for non payment of all manner of stuff. I suggested that we use 'the local chappies' phone, and we asked them 'do you do criminal defence work?' The receptionist had to go and ask, so we were not surprised that the answer was 'no'.

 

Quand vous etes dans le merde, get a man with a shovel, not a pitch fork, and look at his boots to see if he has ever done that sort of work before.

[MARTIN3030]

Duplicate posts moved from both threads.

[customer_s]

Hi guys,

i was in the similar situation like rosa. i went to the hearing, pleaed guilty and explained it was a genuine mistake. I was finally fined 50 and the magistrate told me that the case is now closed and I will not be allowed to repeat the offence in 12 months time otherwise the case will be reopened again. (i won't repeat the stupid mistake in the rest of my life anyway) What does this exactly mean? Will i get a criminal record?

Thank you in advance!

 

p.s. Rosa, I sincerely wish you can be a great lawyer in the near future!

[SRPO]

Hi guys,

i was in the similar situation like rosa. i went to the hearing, pleaed guilty and explained it was a genuine mistake. I was finally fined 50 and the magistrate told me that the case is now closed and I will not be allowed to repeat the offence in 12 months time otherwise the case will be reopened again. (i won't repeat the stupid mistake in the rest of my life anyway) What does this exactly mean? Will i get a criminal record?

Thank you in advance!

 

p.s. Rosa, I sincerely wish you can be a great lawyer in the near future!

 

It means you received a conditional discharge for 12 months, the £50 is presumably for costs.

You have a criminal conviction.

If you commit any offence in the next 12 months this matter will be re-visited & you will be punished for it & the new offence.

[customer_s]

Hi SRPO,

Thank you for your reply.

Does that mean i will have criminal record for 1 year or forever?

[customer_s]

Pursuant section 14 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000

14 Effect of discharge.

(1)Subject to subsection (2) below, a conviction of an offence for which an order is made under section 12 above discharging the offender absolutely or conditionally shall be deemed not to be a conviction for any purpose other than the purposes of the proceedings in which the order is made and of any subsequent proceedings which may be taken against the offender under section 13 above.

 

I guess i am not going to be recorded if i behave well, am i right?

[green_and_mean]

A conditional discharge will still show up on a CRB check.

 

More advice here...

 

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-judgements/criminal-records.htm

[scare2010]

Hi, so I got into same mess as Rosa in Novemeber, and it is finally coming to a head, but I must admit it not good news. Court summons, and a conviction!!!!!

 

What I have learnt:

 

1. Honesty is not the best policy - if you reveal the truth, they have more grounds to convict you on. As nice and airy fairy it is to believe that your cooperation will be taken into consideration...IT WONT. - But if you are reading this thread, you probably have already been caught, so you may have already divulged everything.

 

2. Using a freedom pass is not worth it!!!! It is one of the fare evasion charges that they take seriously, so all you have read about people settling out of court does not apply here, especially if you have admitted your at fault. I think unless you have serious mitigating circumstances you will not be able to do so. I dont know what the odds are for you fighting the case if you told them you did not realise your mistake, but I think if you have got a court summons, it means they are pretty sure they can convict you!

 

3. Mitigaing circumstances does not really include the detriment to your job etc, cos that would be everyones case.

 

4. Saying sorry doesnt make a difference if you have told them your intent. I mean, I guess if you have told them everything already, then it wont hurt saying sorry, but dont expect them to feel sorry for you!

 

Im dont know if people will agree with all this, but this is what I have found. I had false hopes of calling the prosecutions manger, saying sorry, crying a bit about my job, and uni, and then him settling out of court. But believe me...that is not the case. So I just wanted people to get a realistic account.

 

I used my dads freedom pass

Got caught

Admitted I knew it was wrong

Admitted it was not my first time (I dont know what came over me...)

Got a letter trying to explain my side of things (Do not ignore this)

Read this thread (realised I was in the s**t hole)

Wrote a letter back trying to shy away from any intent, however saying sorry for my mistake, and telling them the effects on my job at uni, and work, telling them I would even do community service

Got a court summons

Called prosecutions dept to speak to the manager, to try and settle out of court

Told they had good grounds to convict me on so no chance!

 

The rest I guess they say is history.

 

Sorry it is bad news, but I guess it is my fault so I have to face the consequences. On the plus side, I have noticed on some applications (mainly for universities) that is asks if you have any convictions (this is impoertant and you should read the notes, because it then talks about RELEVANT convictions. but this is not classed as a relevant conviction, so I dont know if you have to divulge this...THIS IS NOT GOSPEL, just what I have noticed)

 

Anyway sorry for banging on, hope this helps,

Hope things go better for you guys than it does for me!

[dx100uk]

op has posted the outcome

thread closed

 

dx

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