Is it footpath? Please advise!

[maxima]

Guys could you please look into the picture attached and tell if this could be a footpath (the pocket where the BMW is parked) ?

 

I parked my car for 2.5 min to drop a letter exactly on the same spot and got local council's PCN telling that it cost 50 quid because this is a footpath.

 

I dont want to pay as I believe this is not a footpath. But I might be wrong.

 

There is also no camera sign on the road - can the council sue me in this situation?

 

Thank you

[sarajulldin]

thats a good question, initialy looks like it use to be somekind of drivway, but not been bollered

[crem]

Even though it appears to be roadway access to a premises, because it is in line with the footpaths each side, I believe it officiially constitutes "footpath". After all, if it isn't classed as part of the footpath, how are pedestrians supposed to get from one section of path to the other?

Edited August 13, 2009 by crem
spelling

[maroondevo52]

Even though it appears to be roadway access to a premises, because it is in line with the footpaths each side, I believe itofficiially constitutes "ffootpath". After all, if it isn't classed as part of the footpath, how are pedestrians supposed to get from one section of path to the other?

 

 

Thats what I was thinking.

[HSBCrusher]

how are pedestrians supposed to get from one section of path to the other?

the same way that you would cross any normal road I suppose..

 

At first lt does look like a driveway, the kerbs are dropped, and the pavement terminates in two radiuses. But I suppose it is bollarded off. It must have been a driveway that was then cut off for some reason.

 

Its not clean cut that it is a pavement IMHO, I would say it wasn't myself.

[pedross]

I expect it is classed as a dropped kerb. I believe that the councils have recently been handed additional powers to police certain areas of law that traffic wardens used to look after. Including dropped kerbs and certain motoring offences like one way streets or similar.

 

Some councils are still trying to work out how to deal with it and it appears that some are more pro-active. This is not good for good honest motorists.

 

Pedross

[HSBCrusher]

if there was no radiused kerbs then I would say yes, its simply a dropped kerb. Im not so sure about this, and its understandable that a driver might be confused.

Edited August 13, 2009 by HSBCrusher

[green_and_mean]

The contravention is parking on a footpath or any part of a road other than the carriageway. A footpath is a pedestrian footway that is not along the road such as a passageway. It is certainly not a footpath but is a part of the footway or a crossover which is still not part of the carriageway.

[HSBCrusher]

parking bays are not part of the carriageway either. The parking bays in my town even have a dropped kerb... in fact they are very similar to the picture.

[pedross]

Good point HSB

 

The road markings could be a clue but are not clear. The answer must be to contact the council and appeal the ticket. They may say it is a dropped kerb or whatever and if so dispute it, say it is not clear and ask them to inspect the site. If they back down great and if they are having none of it then its probably best to pay.

 

Pedross

[maxima]

I sent representation saying it is not a footpath but just received the rejection saying the same as the original letter - vehicle was parked on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking).

 

Is there a formal definition of a carriageway?

 

P.S. there is one straight yellow line uninterrupted with no difference as it was along a curb

[pedross]

Sorry I have run out of ideas maxima

 

Try posting in the morning to bring your post to the top again and hope someone with more knowledge comes along. I think this is just the beginning now the council are enforcing more offences.

 

It appears that post 8 is correct.

 

Good Luck

[pedross]

Perhaps I can clarify:

 

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, as I thought I made clear, the pedestrian part of the footway added to the carriageway make the highway. The carriageway is that part of the road over which there is a right of passage of vehicles. In technical terms, the road is for vehicles—this is a reflection of the vernacular—but we are with precision here identifying the combination of footway and carriageway—the one for pedestrians, the other for vehicles, which together form the highway.

 

It looks as if you may have to pay up.

 

Pedross

[green_and_mean]

I think this is just the beginning now the council are enforcing more offences.

 

 

It has been an offence in London since 1976 and enforced by Councils since 1991, not exactly new.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Do the bollards collapse, ie to allow vehicles beyond them?

[crem]

Do the bollards collapse, ie to allow vehicles beyond them?

 

They look like ordinary solid concrete ones to me from the photo I think.

[green_and_mean]

Do the bollards collapse, ie to allow vehicles beyond them?

 

It would make no difference its still not carriageway so the vehicle is in contravention.

[pedross]

It has been an offence in London since 1976 and enforced by Councils since 1991, not exactly new.

 

 

I didn't realise that gam

 

I was working on this information:

 

Press Release Details

 

Summary Irresponsible parking could, hopefully, be a thing of the past as, from 1 June 2009, local authorities will have new powers under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (Sections 84, 85 and 86) to enforce the contraventions of parking alongside dropped kerbs or double parking.

 

 

Pedross

[maxima]

Thank you guys! You were very quick and helpful...

 

In my case it seems I was wrong and will pay.

 

Cheers!

[Jamberson]

Why?

 

You may not have a water-tight legal argument but you can still appeal it. Say you honestly though you were parking on the road and had no intention of parking on the pavement.

 

judging by the photos you avoided the yellow line and there was a reasonable gap for pedestrians to continue using the pavement.

 

You can plead that you honestly didn't think you were committing any parking offence and ask for a discretionary cancel.

 

Nothing to lose except a stamp...

[green_and_mean]

I didn't realise that gam

 

I was working on this information:

 

Press Release Details

 

Summary Irresponsible parking could, hopefully, be a thing of the past as, from 1 June 2009, local authorities will have new powers under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (Sections 84, 85 and 86) to enforce the contraventions of parking alongside dropped kerbs or double parking.

 

 

Pedross

 

London is usually ahead of the game as far as parking legislation goes, drop kerbs and double parking have also been enforced for a couple of years under local legislation. Footway parking is not covered under the TMA 2004.

[maxima]

Why?

 

You may not have a water-tight legal argument but you can still appeal it. ...

I cant see the whole thing through. What would I do if and then etc. The possible stress doesnt worth 50 quid for me.

 

Also I thought I was right and the council is just [causing problems] money. But now I understand I was wrong.

[Jamberson]

OK mate, your shout.

 

Just so you're aware though, appealing it entails writing one letter explaining that you made a mistake. That's all. They will reply saying "OK, we've cancelled it" or "sorry, you have to pay the discounted rate". Up to you.

[green_and_mean]

 

You can plead that you honestly didn't think you were committing any parking offence and ask for a discretionary cancel.

 

Nothing to lose except a stamp...

 

Its a hot spot for Ealing with 264 PCNs issued just in that one street in May for footway parking so I would not be too optimistic.