Advice on HSBC CCA Please

[daddypig]

Hi,

 

I've been looking at my partner's loan with HSBC which was taken out in March 2006. This was before we met and my partner was struggling to make ends meet being a single parent. HSBC's answer, once the OD was at it's limit again...roll it up into a loan over 5 years. This had already been done two or three times previously, so it was clear she couldn't meet her commitments and the loans were simply not the answer to the problems.

 

That said, she has made all payments due to date and now, using our combined income we're clearing up all our old debts. This one bugs me though as the loan was unsuitable in the first place and I'd like to see if the CCA (attached) is actually enforceable. I would be most grateful for any views anyone has on it. The loan was agreed and signed in branch btw. Many thanks, David

HSBC CCA.pdf

[daddypig]

I've just posted some smaller images as the PDF is a bit on the large side! Any thoughts on whether this agreement is enforceable would be much appreciated...

[johnnymitch]

Hi daddypig , welcome to the forum ...

 

Sorry, it looks as if your request slipped through the net for a couple of days..... but here goes .......

 

Although I am no great expert , it looks to me like this is a proper agreement ..... with signatures and details all in place ..... the arithmetic is right ...... although I haven't checked out the APR figures. ....

 

Hope this helps , however , come back if you'd like a second opinion and I'll get a site team member to look at it for you.

[daddypig]

Thanks for taking a look jonnymitch. Is the APR figure hard to check - would you be able to point me in the direction of how to do this? Assuming that's correct I guess it's a dead end then, unless anyone else has any other thoughts?... I suppose I could always ask HSBC to produce their copy!......

[rudy691]

Thanks for taking a look jonnymitch. Is the APR figure hard to check - would you be able to point me in the direction of how to do this? Assuming that's correct I guess it's a dead end then, unless anyone else has any other thoughts?... I suppose I could always ask HSBC to produce their copy!......

 

you may try asking them for their copy, there's a slight chance that they dont have it

[johnnymitch]

Loan calculator

 

You can calculate the loan APR , payments etc from this link daddypig ....

 

you may try asking them for their copy, there's a slight chance that they dont have it

 

You could send them a CCA (cost £1 ) dp , see this this link

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

 

... if they can't produce their copy as rudi says , it may, (just may) be considered unenforceable ..........

[johnnymitch]

btw , I've just used the calculator.... there's a slight discrepancy , (6p a month) ..... in their favour .....

 

I seem to remember a judge somewhere said it had to be spot on to be enforceable , but I can't find that at the moment ..... maybe someone else can throw some light on it ...

[daddypig]

Sorry for the delayed reply. Thanks for the info and link. Could the 6p discrepancy be down to the first payment being different? I couldn't find a calculator which took a different initial repayment into account - anyone know how this can be calculated?....

 

Hoping it may have been calculated incorrectly, I did some searching around and found some case info (see attached word doc). A few interesting points in there regarding accuracy of the prescribed terms, one being:

 

Wilson v. Hurstanger [2007] EWCA Civ 299 at para 11Tukey LJ agreed with the first instance judge who said in respect of the prescribed terms:

 

“In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them.”

 

So if I can find out for sure that the repayments are incorrect it looks like it could be unenforceable .....

case info.doc

[citizenB]

I will ask one of the site team for you.

[42man]

This might help - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/169592-urgent-help-wanted.html#post1830350

[daddypig]

right so it's down to rounding of the APR (which is within limits), so it's enforceable. Oh well, it was worth finding out!

 

Thanks for your time and assistance guys

[42man]

Have you checked if the default notice is compliant ? and did you get notice of termination ?

[daddypig]

No, the account isn't in default. It's being paid off (albeit very slowly), but in my opinion it should never have been suggested as a solution for my partners previous financial issues at the time - hence why I'm keen to see if we could go down the unenforceable route!