Charging Order with no record of CCJ

[KJ123]

Hi just looking for a bit of help, my friend has today received Notice of Charging Order documents; this is a debt which dates back to 1998 and a CCJ was apparently issued in 2001 although she has never received a copy of the CCJ or made any payments or even acknowledged the debt.

She has written to the DCA and asked for a copy of the agreement and CCJ and they wrote back to say they do not have the CCJ as it was issued by Northampton.

I do not what she should do next, should she write to the court, should her partner (who the house is in joint names with) write and object? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[lamb909]

Not too sure as am new to this myself but as far as I am aware if a debt isnt paid or acknowedged for 6 years or over than the debt becomes statue barred meaning they cant collect or ask for money. Would imagine this would apply to chraging order as would think they couldn't get one so it may just be scare tactics.

 

Wait around for peeps with more experience though, as like I say, i'm not an expert.

 

Good luck though

[debt4get]

can you challenge the charging order?

[supasnooper]

hi there,

 

Write to Northampton County Court quoting any details from the Charging Order document asking for any details they can provide. I think they may charge £5.00 for a copy of the judgment but lets see.

 

If your friend did not receive any Court paperwork the she should be able to get the CCJ set aside.

 

Have a look at the links below for more info -

 

Setting aside the original CCJ of your CCA

 

CCJ removal inc. step by step guide

 

 

I am presuming that what your friend has received is an Interim Charging Order - please can you confirm ?

[cerberusalert]

With the judgement being over six years old they would have to apply to the court to take enforcement anyway.

[KJ123]

Thanks for the replies, yes it is Interim Charging Order with copy correspondence from the court with a hearing date for Sept.

They make reference to the CCJ including the court reference but they have not (and I assume they cannot) produce a copy of the CCJ. We have tried to get a copy of the CCJ from the court but they don’t keep them past 6 years.

Im just unsure whether she should write to the court and say all of this to the court or wait until the hearing. Should her partner object?

[teaboy2]

So they refer to a CCJ, even giving the date and name of the court. yet the court no longer have a record of it and the DCA dont have a copy of it. if thats the case, then where did they get the information from that their actually is a CCJ and why cant they send copies of that information?

 

sounds like they might be trying it on if they cant send copies of the information they have about the CCJ. Anyway if the debt was in 1998 and the CCJ was in 2001 and there has been no payments of communication regarding the debt since 2001 then its statued barred anyway.

[cerberusalert]

Anyway if the debt was in 1998 and the CCJ was in 2001 and there has been no payments of communication regarding the debt since 2001 then its statued barred anyway.

A CCJ never becomes Statute Barred, however after six years they have to apply to the court for permission to take enforcement & they have to show good reason as to why they haven't enforced in the past.

[teaboy2]

A CCJ never becomes Statute Barred, however after six years they have to apply to the court for permission to take enforcement & they have to show good reason as to why they haven't enforced in the past.

 

Sorry i ment if they been no communication since 1998 not 2001 (got the years mixed up) Especially when they have no knowlegde of having a CCJ being issued against them since then

[supasnooper]

A good starting point would be to establish if indeed there is a CCJ.

 

All existing CCJs are searchable on this database - CCJs, court orders & fines - Search yourself and others - Trust Online - so your friend can check if it really in existance or not. Sadly, there is a charge of £8.00 for the online search.

[42man]

At the same time as they are going to apply for the charging order you would need to apply to get the original CCJ removed at the same time (they would probably both be heard at the same time)

[KJ123]

Bit of an update, my friend applied to have this CCJ set aside and went to court - the hearing was also for the DCA to apply for a charging order.

 

The CO was granted on the grounds that a defence was not submitted - the judge excepted that she had not received the documentation but she had to demonstrate her defence - although he did say in his summary she had a good chance of success.

 

Can anyone help with what we should put in our defence?

[ODC]

They cannot get a charging order unless a CCJ had been issued. What proof did they present before the judge to PROVE a CCJ had actually been issued

[KJ123]

They didnt have to prove anything, thats the most frustrating thing. The Judge asked my friend - did you have a student loan (yes) have you repaid the student loan (no) well then!

[jon888999]

They cannot get a charging order unless a CCJ had been issued. What proof did they present before the judge to PROVE a CCJ had actually been issued

Probably no proof, in my case the rogues at Marlin nearly obtained a charging order for a set a side judgement, it didn't happen because I created all kind of hassle for them. I was told by the court that, they don't check and don't have to check that a judgement exists until such point that you defend it. The system is wrong.

If it's an interim charging order no prrof is needed until the hearing to make it final.

That's when you can hammer them if they really have tried it on

[ODC]

I have a well know company teeling me that they are going to apply for a Charging Order. They havent even got a CCA let alone a CCJ. Of course to make a threat like this is a breach of CPUTR and I have reported them accordingly

[Seminole]

Did they make a formal written application to have the judgement set aside? If they did and it was turned down then I don't understand the judge's comments.

[KJ123]

No my friend made the application to have the CCJ set aside and the hearing took place to coincide with the Final Charging Order hearing.

The DCA did not have to prove any debt, CCJ or anything. They where not asked about the timescales etc. The judge started off by asking my friend, did you have a Student Loan (yes) Have you paid back the Student Loan (no) He would not grant the set aside based on the fact there was no defence (my friend had repeatedly asked for a copy of the loan agreements which they never produced - until the day of the hearing, in fact they had not produced any documentation until the date of the hearing when they produced a copy of the agreement) But the judge did summarise to say that he thought by friend had a “real chance of success” and this was also put on the written order from the court. So she wants to make another application to have the CCJ set aside but needs to have a defence to back up her arguments

[Seminole]

Was there any indication of why a defence might succeed. I think we need more information about the particular circumstances in which this loan was applied for and possibly defaulted upon to be able to help.

[harrassed senior]

Don't know much but I would think that having requested documentary proof on a number of occasions, and the Agreement was only produced at the Court Hearing would be sufficient grounds for a set aside?

[Seminole]

Don't know much but I would think that having requested documentary proof on a number of occasions, and the Agreement was only produced at the Court Hearing would be sufficient grounds for a set aside?

 

I would have thought so to but the judge had the opportunity to do so or to adjourn but he seems to have done neither.

[KJ123]

Thanks for the replies - I will just give you brief background details:-

My friend had a student loan (pre 1998) and had applied for it when she lived with her parents. In the final year she moved in with her partner (took out a mortgage) she says she did inform them of her new address (mainly to get the last loan chq!) and also a DD from her back account was setup. The DD was still in place until 2008 when she changed bank accounts although no money was ever collected from it.

Heard nothing from the SLC until 2008 - she sent letter saying statute barred - they wrote back saying no they got a CCJ against her in 2001 (they had been using her old address) so cannot be statute barred. She asked for copies of the agreement and details of the CCJ but heard nothing.

12 months later she had a letter from SLC Sols saying they are going to apply for a Charging Order which they did (despite being asked a few times for copies of any documentation) The hearing was in Sept 2009. My friend applied to have this CCJ set aside (although it was done rather rushed) and so no defence was submitted - she applied on the grounds that she did not have any knowledge of the CCJ etc which the Judge did except. He just said that she needed to demonstrate if she had of known of the CCJ what her defence would have been at the time in order to have it set aside. I am assuming the Judge is saying she has a reasonable chance of success of the basis that she would have had a good defence

So in order to make another application to have this CCJ set aside she needs a defence; Would she go down the line of enforceability of the CCA / deferment?

[Seminole]

I'm not an expert on student loans but I do know that the CCA doesn't apply to them.

 

A possible defence might be that her income was under the threshold required for repayment but I don't know what that was in 1998 and I don't know how that would interact with the CCJ.

 

I think it's very concerning that the SLC (is it just them and their solicitors or is there a DCA involved?) aren't responding to basic requests for information. A Data Protection Access Subject Access Rights Notification should elicit much of the missing information but it costs £10 and they have 40 days to respond.

 

I think your friend should also check her credit record to make sure that nothing adverse has been registered against her at her current address. CCJs fall off the record after 6 years and to there shouldn't be any reference to it at her current address.

 

Hopefully someone will be along shortly who has more knowledge of possible student loan defences. One thing that may ease your friend's mind is that most charging orders are only paid off when a property is sold. Technically it's possible for the creditor to ask the court to force a sale but it's very unlikely to be granted._

[teaboy2]

you said she had a DD setup right upto 2008 so a payment arrangement was in place am i right? if so, then it is the claiments negligence, by means of not taking the payments that has resulted in this. so if your friend can goto the bank and ask for copies of cancelled DD in 2008, then there is your prove that it is the claiment at fault all along. then it would be upto the claiment to say why they hadnt collected payment, when there had in fact been a DD setup for such payments to be taken from all along. they have therefore failed to collect payment when they were suppose to, as stated in the terms of any contract or agreement.

 

Also you said they sent corruspondence to her old address, which assuming that to be her parents, then surely her parents would have forwarded all mail on to her? so its more likley nothing was sent there.

 

those i my opinons anyway, so hopefully someone with more legal knowledge on debts will come along shortly to help you with the defence.

 

Has your friend been to see a solicitor for advise as lot offer free advice for first consultation or hour or 2.

Edited November 20, 2009 by teaboy2
added "or agreement"

[42man]

Is this an old style student loan pre 1998 ? or new style ? any chance that there may be a 6 year gap where no money has been paid ? (and I don't mean offsetting)

 

STUDENT LOANS

Student loan agreements are simple contracts

and this gives the Student Loans Company

(SLC) six years from the date you last paid or

acknowledged the debt to go to court to

enforce the agreement. There are two sorts of

student loans and different rules apply

depending upon when you took out the loan.

Old style student loans

Old style or ‘mortgage’ student loans are

consumer credit agreements. Payments cannot

automatically be deducted from your wages.

The SLC has to go to court before they can

enforce the debt against you. This means that

the Limitation Act can apply if you have not

paid or acknowledged the debt for over six

years.

WARNING

Asking for the loan to be deferred could

count as acknowledging the debt and start time

running again.

New style student loans

From September 1998 new style or ‘income

contingent’ student loans include rules to say

that repayments will be automatically deducted

directly from your wages or through your tax

return if you are self-employed. This means

that the SLC are still allowed to take money

from your wages for a loan over six years old

as they do not have to go to court to do so.