N Brown Group/JD Williams/Special Collection

[xx.Morph.xx]

I have been asked by my mum to tackle the parasites that are bleeding her dry, namely JD Williams & Special Collection.

 

I have CCA'd & SAR'd the parent company namely N Brown group & have received their standard SAR delaying tactic of a questionairre to prove identity & a request for £10 per account.

 

I'll come back to the SAR & my reply letter to Mr Harland later but I have received a CCA response as follows:-

 

 

 

True Copy CCA with name & address hand written in biro

 

 

Back of True Copy CCA

 

 

Now my mum is sure that she has never signed a credit agreement with them & has never seen a document like the above before.

 

the bottom line with the account is this:-

goods ordered approx £2.5K

Payments sent approx £2.5K

Interest charged approx £1.2K

Charges approx £75

Outstanding Balance approx £1K

 

The above is a very rough guide & is over some years but she has paid more than the value of the goods ordered, what I need help & advice with is how do I highlight the fact that there is NO agreement to pay interest & therefore she has paid for what she ordered so there is no outstanding balance.

 

Will I have to go down the CPR rout to get them to admit they don't have a signed agreement?

 

All help & advice greatly received

 

Morph

 

PS I'll post up a copy of my letter to Mr Harland once I've sent it;)

[xx.Morph.xx]

I may as well post up my SAR questionairre letter now, It'll be in the post box in the morning anyway:-

 

 

 

P.F. Harland

Data Protection Officer

Griffin House

40 Lever Street

Manchester

M60 6ES

 

 

 

Account Numbers: 123456 & 654321

In the name of: Morph's Mum

 

Dear Sir,

 

In correspondence dated Xth August 2009 you have stipulated that you require proof of my identity and a questionnaire completed before you comply with my Subject Access Request, may I bring the following to your attention;

 

 

“Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.”

 

 

Suffice to say that if the Information Commissioners Office is satisfied that if you have previously corresponded with me at this address then it is reasonable to assume that I am the person I say I am, therefore there is no legislation or guidelines that you can hide behind in an attempt to avoid fulfilling my legal request.

 

 

 

A Subject Access Request covers ALL of the information you hold about A PERSON regardless of the number of accounts held, my request was sent to the parent company namely N Brown group where your website boasts:-

 

“The home shopping business provides a well established tradition of offering an extensive range of value for money products and offers via a number of trading titles. We regularly contact our customers with specialist brochures aimed at meeting their needs. The division has over two million established active customers. The continuing developments in its database management systems enable the business to materially improve its ability to match customers with offers of the right products and services.”

 

Therefore my initial request with the required £10 fee enclosed still stands and the 40 days started on the Xth August the date you acknowledged receipt.

 

 

Furthermore 2 separate Consumer Credit Agreement requests have already been sent with the required fees enclosed, proof of receipt has been obtained and one response already received with the deadline for the other imminent. I find it very odd that you have seen fit to trust my identity with a Consumer Credit Agreement request and respond accordingly by processing and sending private data but doubt it with a Subject Access Request.

 

 

 

It is my opinion your questionnaire is nothing more than a delaying tactic and I am sure the Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioner would agree especially as you appear to be not only the Data Protection Officer but also the Company Secretary, a Solicitor & a former Head Of Legal Services who should know what the law requires of you.

 

If you still fail to comply with my legal request, I will have no other option than to complain to the Information Commissioners Office and if my complaint is upheld you will be liable to a £5000 fine.

 

Yours,

 

Morph's Mum

 

 

 

Morph

[24233513afw]

Hi Morph

My Daughter was saying same thing never seen a CCA like this or completed/signed one, however it got me thinking that there was something that came into force about online applications only needing a tick box (seen this somewhere on here) to prove signed agreement if the account was taking out on line I am sure these new terms/rules came out either 2004 or 2006 if I can find the post that I saw this on I shall try and send a link.

cheers

afw

[xx.Morph.xx]

HI afw, yes the data signature thingy was 2006 IIRC previously they still needed to send an agreement for signing even with an online application, doesn't apply in my case coz the only time my 76 year old mum holds a computer is when I'm showing her something to do with her favourite tv shows on the laptop:D

 

Morph

[steven4064]

The agreement posted above would be completely Ok if it was signed. However, without a signature it fully meets their obligations under s78 of the CCA 1974 but it is not properly executed (s61 of the CCA 1974) and therefore unenforceable except by court order (s65 of the CCA 1974). However, the abseence of a signature prevents a court enforcing it (s127(3) CCA 1974)

 

The regulation allowing a tick box to be used as a signature is the Consumer Credit (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 which came into force on 31 December 2004. Before that, online applications had to be sent out to be signed.

[xx.Morph.xx]

Thanks Steven, great info, looks like CPR route to prove theres no signed agreement then:confused:

 

Many thanks

 

Morph

[welshwizard]

Hi there

 

Just jumping in here...

 

I see you've mentioned a 'CPR' route. What does that entail, what would the letter look like and would I have to continue to court if I went down this route?

 

Many thanks

[xx.Morph.xx]

Hi Welshwizard, the CPR route can be found in pt2537's excellent thread here:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

It's a LONG read at 73 pages:eek: but well worth the read

 

Personally after consultation with my mum, we're going to ride out the storm of toothless threats until they threaten court & then use CPR pre court protocol to stop them in their tracks as there is no signed agreement.

 

If they sell it off to a DCA then it's just a new set of idiots to play threat tennis with:rolleyes:

 

Morph

[xx.Morph.xx]

After closer inspection the CCA they have sent as a "True Copy" has regulations on it that were not put into place til 31st October 2004 which is some time AFTER they claim the CCA was sent & the account opened.

 

Have they complied with their obligations under s78 of the CCA 1974 even though what they have sent was not in existance when the account was opened?

 

any advice appreciated

 

Morph