Barclaycard T & C only

[kimberley11]

Repeated requests for CCA have resulted in them sending me Terms & Conditions only. They have also sent the enclosed letter in response to my latest letter to them. Is there anyone out there who has any idea what I should do next. Mercers are continually contacting me for payments which I refuse to make.

[cerberusalert]

If you upload them to TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting & then copy and paste the URL back here we'll be able to see them.

 

On the Tinypic page left click the 'choose' button & a seperate window will open, choose which file you want to upload and left click 'open', the window will close then left click 'upload now' button. Your document will upload to tiny pic & the page will refresh giving a list of links. Just copy & paste the Url link back here & we'll be able to see it.

[kimberley6]

ok

[cerberusalert]

The link you have given is for a file on your computer not the picture host.

[kimberley6]

sorry just trying to help a friend out can't seem to enlarge his images

[cerberusalert]

If you upload them to tinypic they should appear ok.

[experience]

Sorry to hijack this thread but the thumbs look very similar to what i received today - are yours the same?

[kimberley11]

exactly the same letter

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[experience]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

 

Thats exactly what i sent to them last week and received this letter today

[kimberley11]

sent similar letter on 30th June & 5th August

[cerberusalert]

Try this one;

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending the Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the dispute continues

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

[kimberley11]

that was the letter I sent on 30thJune

[cerberusalert]

Have a read of why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

 

why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement - The Consumer Forums

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish.html

[experience]

Would you suggest using the following template as a reply then?

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

Regards

[kimberley11]

thanks for that,seems like a good move

[bigandyuk1]

And they will still send you a copy of the T & C's quoting CCA 77/78 same as the letters you have already received....

[kimberley11]

Just received this reply to CPR 31.16 letter sent on the 13 th August. Anyone able to give any help on how to proceed. Many thanks.

[kimberley11]

Content of letter from Barclaycard

 

I write further too your recent letter alleging that we failed to comply with our obligations in relation to your request for documents pursuant to Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Please note that we have already set out, in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already provided to you have discharged our obligations under the Act. We are under no legal obligation to provide any further documentation to you in this regard.

 

We note your reference to the Civil Procedure Rules (the "CPR). We have provided you with sufficient information to allow you to understand our position. The CPR does not confer an automatic entitlement to documents before proceedings start. CPR 31.16 provides that a party may apply to the court for pre-action disclosure in certain limited circumstances, which do not apply here. The application must be supported by evidence - and the usual order is for the applicant to pay the costs of the application, including the respondent's costs, together with the respondent's costs of complying with any order that is made as a result (CPR 48.1.(2).

[Parry]

Kimberley, they really are beyond contempt aren’t they.

 

I have had the three page letter from BC saying we don’t have to do anymore than t & c’s but am waiting on the results of my SAR at the moment. No doubt I will get to your stage in due course.

 

BC really do believe they are above the law and they seem to read it only in ways that suit them. Someone with more experience will comment soon and I’ll also be interested in what they say abut the latest letter.

[kimberley11]

bump

[kimberley11]

Had a letter today from Calder Financial, been passed over from Mercers. Any one heard of them as they have demanded payment within 7 days or face the consequences. Thanks again for any help you can give

[cerberusalert]

Mercers are Barclays in-house pet collection monkeys.

[bigandyuk1]

Calders are the next desk to Mercers..Still Balcays in house Monkies.

[andydd]

It dawns on me that there are two scenarios when you ask for a CCA (this doesnt just apply to BC, I'm thinking Cap 1 too)

 

Scenario 1.

 

They have a fully enforceable compliant signed copy of the agreement, you ask for it and they send it to you. THAT'S IT !. YOU NOW HAVE NO EXCUSE NOT TO PAY.

 

Scenario 2.

 

They have a fully enforceable compliant signed copy of the agreement but for some bizarre reason they chop bits out, remove other bits, add further bits, remove your signature (why !?), etc and when questioned go into bizarre 3 page answers about why what they sent is complying with a CCA request.

 

Now if it were me I'd choose option 1, its simple, quick and leaves no room for people to get out of paying..BUT WAIT..maybe, just maybe, the companies are lying and theyve screwed up and lost the agreement or perhaps it never exisited in the first place, now if this was the case, which option would I choose, well It would have top be No. 2

 

Of the four companies i've sent my request too, only one (Nemo) has responded with a fully compliant, enforceable, signed copy, alas it is also the biggest loan

 

Andy