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fitlikeloon

Bill of sale help

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Hi, I wondered if someone can help with this?

 

I Purchased a car which turns out had an outstanding agreement with LBL.

Dont want to through whole process of what has happened but i had to pay LBL to keep the car as i had letters from courts etc.

I was checking the bill of sale which i asked LBL for, The loan was taken out by the person who i bought the car off on 14th DEC 2007 and was not registered in court until the 27th DEC 2007, thats a gap of about 13 days!.

I thought it had to be registered within 7 days?

 

Im thinking of contacting a solicitor to try and get my money back but is it worthwhile.

 

Any help is much appreciated.

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In accordance with the Bills of sale Act 1878, the registration needs to be within seven clear days of it being signed

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Hi, I suggest as a first port of call you contact the royal courts in the strand where all the BOS's are sent.

 

drob is quite correct all BOS's have to be registered within 7 days. They are returned after this and the lender has to give a valid reason for the delay and pay an extra cost. The courts then decide if they will register it (a large percentage are accepted) which makes it in effect the same as 7 days. What makes me think here, is the dates and time of year, ie christmas. The royal courts shut for 4 days over this period, this combined with xmas post is often a reason they are late at this time of year and a readily accepted reason by the courts. All the lender needs to do is prove it was sent recorded next day delivery on or before the 6th day.

 

Enquire with the RCJ, they will tell you if it was late and if it was accepted. If its was then Im afraid this is binding, if not, the loan isnt worth the paper its written on but no point in speculating when you can find out 100%

Edited by boocoo
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boocoo is correct on some points but not totally correct on others...

 

where a bill of sale is registered out of time - the car company will receive a letter from the RCJ to let them know the Bill of Sale has been registered but has been registered out of time. A master would only accept the registration as an out of time registration in this circumstances 'without prejudice'.

 

The loan company know this - and they also know that in order to have the bos registered as an enforceable document they would have to make an application to the courts and go through the legal process necessary to have the document registered as a valid document.

 

If they have not done this - then whilst the document is 'registered' it is not necessarily a 'valid' or 'enforceable' document, as it still needs to comply fully with regulations and also the 1878 act and the 1882 act

 

so don't be fooled when you are told it is registered because it has the high court of Justice stamp on it.....even when a document has been registered within 7 days - if it does not meet regulations and the law it can still be found to be an unenforceable document.

 

Further, the only dates that are not counted within the '7' days are only bank holidays and Sundays - for the period in question 7 days counts from the 14th, - please see the link for the 2007 calendar below Calendar 2007 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

 

The Law is quite clear '7' days...

 

The Queens Bench guide will give you clarification of what is recognised as 'court days' and help you decifer if the 21st or the 24th was the deadline in your case.

 

Whilst a large amount are 'accepted' for registration - please bear in mind the 'without prejudice' rule above and also note this does NOT make them 'within 7 days' because it DOES NOT and a bos registered 'without prejudice' DOES NOT make it 'binding'

 

hope this helps clarify matters : )


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Applecart. This information is intersting. Could you tell me how someone finds out if the BOS has been accepted with or without prejudice after 7 days and why the courts accept and stamp them after the 7 days if they have not passed the full accaptence process? In other words if the reason for being late has not been acceptable (maybe a postal strike would be okay but illness wouldnt?) what purpose and status does the BOS have? Im assuming it must still play some part else why accept it without prejudice, and not just send it back to the lender as it is now worthless, or is that the point?

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Hi Boocoo

 

The information is to be found in the Queens Bench Guide - see sections 13.4.3 & 13.4.6

 

the HCJ is specifically there to 'register' Bills of Sale, they are not there to deal with the authenticity of any Bill of Sale - what they will do is let the person/company registering the Bill of Sale know if it has been registered out of time.

 

It is then up to that individual or company to decide if they are happy with the registration purely on a 'without prejudice' basis or not. 9 times out of 10, it would seem that most companies are happy to leave 'out of time' registrations registered 'without prejudice' - I assume they do this as they presume the majority of their clientelle are likely to be ignorant of the law.

 

The best way to find out if it has been accepted 'without prejudice' is to ask at the HCJ

 

My opinion is that the purpose of the bill of sale - and don't forget it is a very old law (soon to be abolished, if the white paper goes through) is simply as it was always intended 'a security'.

 

Anyone can register 'a security' - but due to the amended act of 1882 and regulations introduced - consumers are better protected now, than previous - The queens Bench Guide 2006 is a great help for consumers.

 

Moving forward - the best protection for consumers, is when the Bill of Sale Act is abolished!!!


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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