Son moved back home and now wolves at door

[Big.Banny]

OK so not quite yet but my son has just moved back home to help "Get himself sorted" Over the last two weeks its been a painfull extracting of teeth to find out he in in council tax arrears and has had the baliffs at his door.

They were inside his house and he did sign somthing (but hes not sure what)

 

So he now has a card that he pays to monthly and as he missed £50 last month there is a £100 extra fee this month and the £50 missed must be paid on top of the £200 monthly payment.

 

My few questions after reading some very interesting thrads here are.

 

The baliffe and MY house does anything he signed give them rights to his stuff in my house? and more so does it give them to right to Entry for his stuff???

 

And again if i go speak to the council today to pay off ALL arrears do they have to accept???

 

I am planning on meeting my son at the council tax building at 3pm today and as such want to know how far i can push this.

 

PS my son has been told the £350 must be on the card by 1pm today or there will be extra charges.

 

Through this useful site I am aware that if i challeng this baliffe on costs it will be an interesting conversation and I have no problems paying the correct fees but I dont like being ripped off or any member of my family being ripped off either.

 

Only good point is son might eventually sort his life out. (till next time)

 

Thanks Big B

Edited August 12, 2009 by Big.Banny

[andydd]

OK so not quite yet but my son has just moved back home to help "Get himself sorted" Over the last two weeks its been a painfull extracting of teeth to find out he in in council tax arrears and has had the baliffs at his door.

They were inside his house and he did sign somthing (but hes not sure what)

 

So he now has a card that he pays to monthly and as he missed £50 last month there is a £100 extra fee this month and the £50 missed must be paid on top of the £200 monthly payment.

 

My few questions after reading some very interesting thrads here are.

 

The baliffe and MY house does anything he signed give them rights to his stuff in my house?

 

And again if i go speak to the council today to pay off ALL arrears do they have to accept???

 

I am planning on meeting my son at the council tax building at 3pm today and as such want to know how far i can push this.

 

PS my son has been told the £350 must be on the card by 1pm today or there will be extra charges.

 

Through this useful site I am aware that if i challeng this baliffe on costs it will be an interesting conversation and I have no problems paying the correct fees but I dont like being ripped off or any member of my family being ripped off either.

 

Only good point is son might eventually sort his life out. (till next time)

 

Thanks Big B

 

I do believe bailiffs are limited as to extra costs they can impose, £100 sounds way too high.

 

If a bailiff does turn up at yours, dont let them in, and of course they can only take your son's possessions.

 

Andy

[pink_eeyore]

have they said what the £100 is for ? The 'name' of the charge ?

[Big.Banny]

For late payment but it seems she has his mobile no and only ever calls him on the phone. Not quite a visit now is it.

[hallowitch]

there is no such thing as a late payment fee

your son will have signed a walking possession agreement

as he has missed a payment they will have added a van/attendance to remove fee however to charge this the bailiff must visit his home in a van to remove goods (they don't actually have to remove goods to charge this)

 

The bailiff and MY house does anything he signed give them rights to his stuff in my house

the bailiff has no right to enter your home (but until the debt is paid the goods on the walking possession belong to the bailiff )

 

PS my son has been told the £350 must be on the card by 1pm today or there will be extra charges (not true)

the only other charge the bailiff can add is if they come and remove goods

 

And again if i go speak to the council today to pay off ALL arrears do they have to accept

they don't have to accept payment and might tell you to pay the bailiff

 

 

 

when you pay council tax arrears through the bailiff they take there fees first so depending on how much the debt was and the bailiff charges are

and how much he has paid you wont get a true picture of the actual amount until you find out the amount of the liability order(from the council and you get a screenshot (this gives all charges ) from the bailiffs company

[Yoshiro]

Most councils have an online payment system now. So you could for example go online, pay the council (the council reference number should be on the correspondence) and then send a cheque to the bailiffs for the legal amount of fees!

 

Doing it online means the council cant refuse it, as its an automated system.

[hallowitch]

On line search to check if a Bailiff is Certificated

 

have you checked to see if the bailiff is certificated

when you find out how much the liability order was for and you get a screenshot of the bailiffs charges post them here and we will tell you if they are correct

[Santa Maria]

Hallowitch , you say that the council does not have to accept payment , and may tell you to pay the bailiff.

I am pretty sure I have read on these forums on many occasions , that the council can't refuse to accept payments , and for people not to be fobbed off by being told that they have to pay the bailiffs.

If I have miss-understood what has been said in previous threads , then please forgive me. ( I am prone to getting ' senior moments ' !!! )

[hallowitch]

Hallowitch , you say that the council does not have to accept payment , and may tell you to pay the bailiff.

I am pretty sure I have read on these forums on many occasions , that the council can't refuse to accept payments , and for people not to be fobbed off by being told that they have to pay the bailiffs.

If I have miss-understood what has been said in previous threads , then please forgive me. ( I am prone to getting ' senior moments ' !!! )

 

 

you are right in theory but putting it into practise is another thing most councils will say they will not accept payment because it has gone to the bailiff and to pay the bailiff

and the way round this is to pay it on line

 

because Big.Banny is going into the council office to try and pay this

they may refuse to take his payment

[Big.Banny]

Thanks for all you input so far people.

 

I have rang the council and they have said I can phone the recovery department today to pay off all arrears to them directly over the phone.

They will then give advice on how to deal with the baliffe ?? that will be intersting.

 

 

From there it is all about the baliff fees and this baliff has only ever been to my sons house once the rest of the contact was on the phone. so its time for the letter to break down all costs times dates etc and lets see what comes

 

 

Thank you all again and I'll let you know what the council say about it when we have paid later

 

 

Big B

[hallowitch]

if the bailiff has only ever been to sons house once

he should only have a Walking possession fee £12

and a levy fee

the levy fee is calculated by the amount of the liability order

 

2.—(1) In heads A and B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a visit or a levy means—

• (a) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) does not exceed £100, £12.50,
  

• (b) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) exceeds that amount, 12½ per cent. on the first £100 of the sum due, 4 per cent. on the next £400, 2½ per cent. on the next £1,500, 1 per cent. on the next £8,000 and ¼ per cent. on any additional sum;
  
• (2) Where a charge has arisen under head B with respect to an amount, no further charge may be aggregated under heads A or B in respect of that amount.
  

[Stephan56]

A couple of queries re Bailiff's powers thrown up by this threasd:

 

1. While they can seize GOODS of the debtor, how do they know WHICH goods belong to the debtor? For example, if they came into my home (and I know one should refuse entry, but assume that failed) and they try to take a TV, for exmaple. That could be my wifes. Do I have to PROVE this (or if I tell them it is my wife's do THEY have to prove it isn't). What happens if I have things in my house (paintings etc) that are NOT MINE, but, say, my Father's and he is letting me borrow them?
   
2. What if I am a landlord renting a FURNISHED flat and baliffs come after a tenant. Surely they cannot just take all MY STUFF.
   
3. What if, 5 minutes befor they turn up I "gift" all the items to my wife/otehr? A bit sneeky, BUT, legally, at the time the balliff's come the asstets in question are NO LONGER LEGALLY mine.
   

I was just struck on this thread how baliffs can come into a house/property NOT OWNED by the debtor in questin (he may just be staying there temporarily) and start attempting to grab all manner of things.

 

Any thoughts?

[hallowitch]

you can fill out a statutory declaration however you cant say the goods belong to your wife unless the debt was before you were married or she moved into your home Joint and several liability: enforcement

54.—(1) This regulation has effect with respect to the application of regulations 33 to 53 to a sum for which persons are jointly and severally liable under Part V

 

you scan it, email it, fax it, post a hard copy recorded delivery. The bailiffs should then release these items from the levy.

—

STATUTORY DECLARATION

 

 

 

To: (the bailiffs) (their address)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I (your name)

of (your address)

Do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

the items listed (list them) are not the property of (your friends name) and (reason why they were there) and have always been my sole property

And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 and Section 5 of The Perjury Act 1911.

 

Signature:

 

Declared at

 

On the day of two thousand and

 

Before me

 

A Commissioner for Oaths, or Notary Public/Justice of the Peace/Solicitor having the powers conferred on a Commissioner for Oaths

 

[Stephan56]

Thanks. So just to be clear, if I buy my wife a gift (TV say) and then I get into trouble and get chased on a CC that is IN MY NAME ONLY they can come into the house and, if they gain entry take HER TV? Seems very harsh.

 

I can see joint and several liability is we were BOTH on a credit card or it was a joint acount (or even if I used the card I subsequently defaulted on to buy her a tv). Under this scenario, we could be married and living together, her mohter dies adn leaves HER something (TV, ring etc) and the bailiffs could come and take HER possessions to satisfy MY debt.

 

I know laws can be very unjst - but that would seem way over the top. Is this really the case?

[hallowitch]

not sure about CCJ but if a CCJ is in your name only i don't see how they can take her things

 

but they can for council tax

[Fair-Parking]

Whatever is written on the liability order which the council has a copy of is what you owe to the council. Not a penny more. Take that amount to the council less any amount the bailiff has deducted (the council must know the bailiffs were acting on their instructions to collect what is owed to them and not the bailiff). The council must accept this and that will be the end of the matter as far as the amount outstanding to the council is concerned.

 

What the bailiffs are claiming is an entirely separate issue and the council either should know that or it needs to be educated. The liability order does not concern itself with bailiff fees, imagined or otherwise.

 

By law the bailiffs can ask for fees, but there is nothing in any legislation that says that they can enforce those fees. The only court order is the liability order and once that is paid then the bailiffs are really left without any powers. The bailiffs will not have any court order for any fees.

 

To verify, ask them for a copy of the court order that allows them to charge the fees they are demanding and when they can't quite put their hand on this, leave them and high and dry and wondering what to do next.

[Big.Banny]

Thank you all.

 

I spoke to the council recovery section this pm and got fobbed off. Told I HAD to deal with the debt recovery angency. I told the agent that I was not happy at this and wanted to speak to a recovery manager or supervisor. I then went to the council offices and was told the same to my face. Although when told the tactics the baliff was using I was offered a "debt advice" service phone number to ring.

 

So it seems a loss untill the call from the recovery supervisor.

She did say if I insisted to pay my debt back to the council that on this occasion she would allow it and I padi the ammount owing to the council there and then on the phone.

 

My dealings now are with the debt recover agency as what i dont know is have they put anything that my son has already paid back to the council to reduce the ammount or do they recover the full ammount before they send it. If so the recovery agency will owe us money and that will be interesting.

 

Thanks again everyone and I think a donation to this great site is on the way soon..........

[hallowitch]

the bailiff take there charges first so anything you son has paid most of it will have gone to the bailiff

get that letter for the screenshot sent off the bailiffs do not like giving you this but by law they have to

send a copy of the letter you are sending to the bailiffs to the council also and inform them that you have asked for a copy of this

 

 

I hate it when the bailiffs rip of kids

[Fair-Parking]

Well done.

 

Nice of her to allow it 'on this occasion'. A rather stubborn way of admitting that she had no alternative on this or any other occasion, but an admittance nevertheless. Rather inconvenient for the poor lass when somebody stands up for their rights in law. Now all she has to do is disappoint the bailiffs over their expectations. That's why nobody from the council wanted to deal with this.

 

So have you paid only what was written on the liability order less what was previously paid?

[Big.Banny]

the bailiff take there charges first so anything you son has paid most of it will have gone to the bailiff

get that letter for the screenshot sent off the bailiffs do not like giving you this but by law they have to

send a copy of the letter you are sending to the bailiffs to the council also and inform them that you have asked for a copy of this

 

 

I hate it when the bailiffs rip of kids

 

THANK YOU AGAIN..

 

to clear things for me do i get the screenshot from the council or the debt agency.

[hallowitch]

you ask the bailiff company for the screen shot but you keep the council involved all the way all letters sent to the bailiff you copy to the council

send all letters by recorded delivery give them about 14 days to supply the information tell them if the don't comply you will make FORMAL COMPLAINT to the CHIEF EXECUTIVE of the council

 

 

doing it this way the council cant say they know nothing about it

[Big.Banny]

I O U

 

[Big.Banny]

Well done.

 

Nice of her to allow it 'on this occasion'. A rather stubborn way of admitting that she had no alternative on this or any other occasion, but an admittance nevertheless. Rather inconvenient for the poor lass when somebody stands up for their rights in law. Now all she has to do is disappoint the bailiffs over their expectations. That's why nobody from the council wanted to deal with this.

 

So have you paid only what was written on the liability order less what was previously paid?

 

Hi Fair parking I paid in full the liability the council have on their system.

My son has paid over £500 to the bailiff so I am unsure if that now is what I need to try to get cost taken from and then recover from the baliff company.

 

Today the letter will be going out for the debt screenshot and copy council and then we will see what happens.

 

Regards

 

Big B

Edited August 13, 2009 by Big.Banny

[combathamster]

HW I complained to Phoenix, this is about 3 months after everything was paid off, council had told me that I was all in the clear. Coinciding with Phoenix's response to my complaint ( 1 line ) was a demand for £33 and a few pence, or they would come round to take goods, I beleive this was a scare tactic, but based on what you are saying Phoenix had no right to make that threat?

[Fair-Parking]

Big. Banny.

 

Possession is nine tenths etc, etc.....and the bailiffs are entitled to collect fees they could not have enforced had you deducted that £500 from the council tax. However they've got the money and they'll fight to keep it. I also predict that the council will now turn their back on this.

 

Ask Tom Tubby to outline the fees the bailiffs can charge and then deduct the excess from next year's council tax. You are perfectly entitled to pay what you owe and not a penny more.