Data Protection Act N1 POC

[basilisbrush]

As Barclays still haven't supplied all the data under the SAR and we've sent them a number of letters detailing what is missing, and a LBA, we're now going to court.

 

There is one part of the N1 form I'm not sure of

 

2. The Claimant (has/had) an account number (Insert Account Number) ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around (Insert date) (and closed on or around (Insert date)).

 

There is more than 1 account so do we just lite all the account numbers and the approx. date accounts were first held with Barclays?

 

 

[slick132]

Hi BIB,

 

I suggest :-

 

2. The Claimant (has/had) several accounts with the Defendant, namely:-

 

i) Account number (Insert Account Number) ("Account #1") which was opened on or around (Insert date) (and closed on or around (Insert date)).

 

ii) Account number (Insert Account Number) ("Account #2") which was opened ......... etc, etc

 

Out of interest, what data is still outstanding.

[basilisbrush]

Thank you.

 

All agreements are missing along with any details of manual intervention which we know there was a lot.

[slick132]

Hi BIB,

 

When you say "agreements", what doc'ts are you expecting to get from Barclays.

 

Are there any credit card or loan accounts involved here.

 

Also, regarding manual intervention, if the banks provides no data about this, surely that will be adequate for reclaiming bank charges.

 

Or is there some other reason you want such info.

Edited August 24, 2009 by slick132
add on

[basilisbrush]

Hi BIB,

 

When you say "agreements", what doc'ts are you expecting to get from Barclays.

 

Are there any credit card or loan accounts involved here.

 

Also, regarding manual intervention, if the banks provides no data about this, surely that will be adequate for reclaiming bank charges.

 

Or is there some other reason you want such info.

 

Yes, there are credit card and loan accounts and they haven't included any paperwork about them at all.

[basilisbrush]

We have now received Barclays defence from the court and need to complete the Allocation Questionaire.

 

Do we respond to the points they've made in their defence?

 

If so, we could do with some help re wording:

 

1. They admit receiving the SAR on the date specified but state that the request did not reach the correct department until 60 days later.

 

Don't feel this is our problem and they still had 40 days from then before we started legal action.

 

2. They deny failing to comply as they have provided every piece if data that we asked for.

 

They can't have as there are credit card and loan agreements missing.

 

 

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi BB,

 

No, just complete the AQ using the guide here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/125-allocation-questionnaires-a-guide-to-completion-

 

Have you received a/c data for every a/c showing enough info for you to claim back all default charges on the various a/c's.

 

Bear in mind that they tend to supply copy statements or transactions schedules, which should provide the data you need to reclaim charges. Also, Default Notices and maybe copies of letters.

 

They don't supply Credit Agreements or details of manual intervention.

 

I don't want you to proceed to court if you already have all the info they are likely, or are obliged, to supply.

[basilisbrush]

Hi BB,

 

No, just complete the AQ using the guide here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/125-allocation-questionnaires-a-guide-to-completion-

 

Have you received a/c data for every a/c showing enough info for you to claim back all default charges on the various a/c's.

 

Bear in mind that they tend to supply copy statements or transactions schedules, which should provide the data you need to reclaim charges. Also, Default Notices and maybe copies of letters.

 

They don't supply Credit Agreements or details of manual intervention.

 

I don't want you to proceed to court if you already have all the info they are likely, or are obliged, to supply.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

It is the agreements that we wanted to see sight of as there was some problems with one particular loan taken out many years ago, and we want to know what is in the agreement. As its over £25,000 its beyond CCA.

 

I thought from what I've read here, that an SAR should reveal this data?

 

Its the information that we requested.

[slick132]

Hi BB and thanks for clarifying that.

 

You would expect the banks would have to supply the credit agreement in response to a SAR but, for reasons beyond me, they get away with this. The ICO doesn't seem to be interested, nor is the FOS willing to involve itself aggresively.

 

Have you looked at Link No2 in my signature below about the CPR strategy. It may be of interest to you.

[basilisbrush]

Hi BB and thanks for clarifying that.

 

You would expect the banks would have to supply the credit agreement in response to a SAR but, for reasons beyond me, they get away with this. The ICO doesn't seem to be interested, nor is the FOS willing to involve itself aggresively.

 

Have you looked at Link No2 in my signature below about the CPR strategy. It may be of interest to you.

 

When you say 'they get away with this', do you mean even going to court they can get away with it?

 

Thanks I've had a good read about the CPR strategy, but had already started down the Subject Access Request route as I thought this would get us to see all the info, especially as there would have been quite a lot of manual intervention years ago.

[slick132]

Hi BB,

 

If you take the bank to court for SAR non-compliance, after they have supplied the info which they normally supply, you may not be successful in getting any further data.

 

There's also a risk of getting some of the banks' costs against you if the judge thinks you have acted unreasonably in bring a case.

 

Carry on with the SAR route and use the non-compliance LBA from the Bank Templates Library.

 

But bear in mind you may not get all that you want in the way of data, particularly about manual intervention.

[basilisbrush]

It seems that I misunderstood what 'manual intervention' is, and so we don't need to pursue that, we just need copies of agreements and correspondence relating to these.

 

Is this the right info http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/125-allocation-questionnaires-a-guide-to-completion- for completing this AQ for data protection act non-compliance?

 

Also, when reading around I've come across references to 'draft directions', do I need to include that too?

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi BiB,

 

The 3 links re SAR non-compliance are 18,19 and 20 from here - The Consumer Forums - Bank charges templates (consumer)

 

Article 20 includes Draft Directions you'd include with your AQ, when you get to that stage.

 

[basilisbrush]

Its a N149 AQ, would you please check our answers for completing it?

 

A Settlement

Would you like to use the free small claims mediation service provided by Her Majesty's Courts Service, to help you settle your claim with the other party? Do we tick Yes to appear reasonable or No because they have already had enough time?

 

B Location of hearing

The claim will be heard in the court to which this form must be returned. Is there any reason why it should be transferred to another court to be heard?

tick No as this is our local court

 

C Track

Do you agree that the small claims track is the most suitable track for this claim?

Yes

 

D Witnesses

So far as you know at this stage, how many witnesses (other than yourself) do you intend to call to give evidence at the hearing? 0

 

E - Experts

Do you want permission to use an expert’s report at the hearing? No

F - Hearing

Are there any days within the next four months when you, an expert or a witness will not be able to attend court for the hearing? No

 

G - Other Information

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim, including any other information you consider should be supplied by the other party. As a further attempt to obtain the information we seek I refer the court to my letter of 12th October (copy attached) which informs the defendant of the further information which we are specifically seeking.

 

 

 

Do we need to add anything to G about 'draft directions' or any response to the defence the bank have put in?

 

Thanks

 

 

[slick132]

Hi BiB,

 

A. Tick No and see here if the court suggests this again. The letter can be adapted to suit your own case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/83044-mediation-bad-idea.html#post742517

 

B. C. D. E. F. - all ok

 

G. Refer to the copy letter as you say. Also, see here for Draft Directions which ask the court to make the bank disclose the data which you seek. You'll have to adapt it to suit your case - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/131-draft-order-for-directions-including-directions-for-disclosure-

[basilisbrush]

Thank you

 

This is what we've written for the draft directions. Would you check its ok and does anything need adding/changing?

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

a) A copy of the agreement for account number XXXXXXXX

b) A copy of the executed agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for account number XXXXXX

c) Copies of correspondence and notes relating to the above accounts.

d) Copies of any personal guarantees held

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

[slick132]

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

a) A copy of the signed loan agreement for account number XXXXXX.

b) A copy of the signed loan agreement for account number XXXXXX.

c) Copies of all correspondence and notes relating specifically to the above accounts, and to the Claimant in general.

d) Copies of any personal guarantees held by the bank, both past and current.

[slick132]

I deliberately left off the last part saying "If the Claimant fails, etc, etc " as this wouldn't apply in your case.

 

[basilisbrush]

Thank you

[basilisbrush]

A quick update:

 

We had filed our AQ on time and as many weeks have now passed and we had not heard anything at all, we called the court today.

 

They said that Barclays hadn't filed any paperwork and the judge had issued an "unless order" giving them until the 30th November.

[slick132]

Hi BiB,

 

Let us know what the Order says when you get a copy from the court.

 

[basilisbrush]

As we hadn't anything, we rang the court who said that Barclays had submitted their AQ before the 30th.

 

We've now received a Notice of Allocation or Listing Hearing, which includes:

 

the judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made.

 

Reason for hearing: To establish what information is required on each side to enable the claim to proceed.

 

 

As we haven't received a copy of Barclays AQ, we've written to them and requested this. Are we entitled to it before the hearing?

 

Is there anything we need to do or prepare before this hearing?

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi BiB,

 

You could ring the court, confirm that Barclays have failed to send you a copy of their AQ and ask if the court would kindly send you a copy.

 

An Allocation or Directions Hearing is not unusual. It's a means of finding out what the main points of contention are, and how they can best be addressed to resolve the claim.

 

As your case concerns SAR non-compliance, I assume the judge will want to hear what documents you think should be produced, and what the bank says in response.

 

So you should have a list with you to show what doc'ts you require, who precisely they relate to, what dates they would cover, etc.

 

I just noticed, in posts #16 and 17, we spoke about draft directions. You said "The claimant shall send to the defendant.

 

Of course, it should be the other way round, so you should ask for "the defendant to send to the claimant.", etc, etc.

 

If you sent this into court wrongly, don't worry. Correct the error by printing out 3 new copies of the corrected Draft Directions and take them with you into court. Offer your apologies to the judge, give him/her a new set of your D Dir'ns, and give a copy to the banks legal rep.

[basilisbrush]

Thank you

 

we now have a copy of the AQ and in part D they say they intend to call 1 witness. Is this usual? Can we ask who it is?

 

Also, should we be aiming for anything particular from the hearing i.e. that our Draft Directions are considered?

 

 

 

Hi BiB,

 

You could ring the court, confirm that Barclays have failed to send you a copy of their AQ and ask if the court would kindly send you a copy.

 

An Allocation or Directions Hearing is not unusual. It's a means of finding out what the main points of contention are, and how they can best be addressed to resolve the claim.

 

As your case concerns SAR non-compliance, I assume the judge will want to hear what documents you think should be produced, and what the bank says in response.

 

So you should have a list with you to show what doc'ts you require, who precisely they relate to, what dates they would cover, etc.

 

I just noticed, in posts #16 and 17, we spoke about draft directions. You said "The claimant shall send to the defendant.

 

Of course, it should be the other way round, so you should ask for "the defendant to send to the claimant.", etc, etc.

 

If you sent this into court wrongly, don't worry. Correct the error by printing out 3 new copies of the corrected Draft Directions and take them with you into court. Offer your apologies to the judge, give him/her a new set of your D Dir'ns, and give a copy to the banks legal rep.

[slick132]

Hi BiB,

 

At the hearing, you will have to play it by ear and go with the flow.

 

Ideally, you will ask that your DD's be used as the basis for the judge's Directions.

 

Make sure you have a clear list of exactly what you still require - take 3 copies of this into court, to distribute if allowed.

 

Also take your own Bullet-Point list of what it is you require and any brief background info about the loan a/c's, who helped you get them at the bank, etc.

 

Their witness could be (but I'm only guessing):-

 

1. Staff employee (from the Data Processing section) to give evidence on what data they hold or has been destroyed. If any key documents have been destroyed, you have the right to ask why and when.

 

2. Staff employee at your branch that may have been involved in any loan arrangements.

 

When is the hearing ?