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bankchaser35

Being taken to court for supposedly not notifying change of keeper

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Hi all,

 

I am due to attend court this wednesday 12th as DVLA have accused me of not notifying them that I sold my car.

 

This however is not true, I sold my car via ebay in December 2008 and sent duly completed notification of new keeper slip to them. I then proceeded to buy another car, which I registered in my name. I thought nothing more of it and carried on with life!

 

In June I received a letter from DVLA saying that I failed to notify them that my old car was scrapped in Feb 2009 and that they wanted £35 from me as out of court settlement. I replied and stated that I did infact post the notification to them, as why on earth would I want a car in my name after it had been sold? I'd be leaving myself open to parking tickets/ untaxed vehicle etc etc?!

 

Anyway, I have now received a court summons for this Wednesday and want to plead not guilty as I do not believe I have done anything wrong, they are just trying to extort money from me because of Royal Mail or them losing the returned document.

 

I've got a printout from ebay showing that the car was sold in December, and NOT February, which is the date they are stating the offence happened (ie me not notifying them) and also registration documents for my new car, which hopefully proves that I am legit with my vehicles.

 

Am I fighting a losing battle with this? It seems so unfair that I'm being taken to court when I pay so much in road tax anyway.

 

Any advice appreciated.

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think i've found the answers to my questions in the dog poo threads hehe!

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Notify the court that you'll be attending and providing a defence. Make sure that the summons is correct and that you understand the alleged offence. Is this a County Court Summons? Is the allegation that you owe a debt or is the allegation that you committed an offence?

 

If they are proceeding to collect a debt then it's trickier since they may well claim that the debt already exists - if they do this you'll have to challenge that fact.

 

Hopefully they will be going through due legal process and you should get a chance to offer a proper defence. If that occurs then you can simply state to the court that you have discharged your legal obligations as the law specifies. Don't over elaborate to start with. Let the DVLA do all the leg work. Remember that it is up to them to prove you guilty – they have to prove that you didn’t notify them rather than you having to prove that you did. Make sure that you make that point clearly.

 

I would also prepare some printed documents. Print out the section of the Interpretation Act which is relevant. Think in advance what the DVLA will have to claim in order to gain prosecution. Basically they are going to have to claim that ‘non-notification’ and their computer database saying that you are still the RK are ‘one in the same’ ie their systems and procedures are 100% correct and reliable. The law doesn’t demand that you ensure that the database is correct! Instead it says you must notify them. This is where the DVLA case will fall apart. The Interpretation Act evidence should destroy any claim the DVLA make about you having a greater obligation than simply sending the forms in. They may try to debate what notification actually means. At this point you can read directly from the Act itself since the Act directly covers this point. Once that occurs the onus shifts back onto the DVLA to PROVE that you didn’t send the forms. Clearly they won’t be able to do this and in theory the case should be dismissed.

 

Good luck and let the board know how it goes.

 

 

N.

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To help, what you need is Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978

7 References to service by post

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

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not much advice from me, but good luck, fight it like hell and let us know

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hi sorry for delay in getting back to you... this is a summons to the Magistrates Court and I apparently "failed to forthwith deliver notification to the Secretary of State, on the registration document or in writing as required by Regulation 22(2)(b) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licencing).... etc etc Act...."

 

even though I posted the duly completed V5 document to them?!

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My OH was taken to court about 3yrs ago for the same thing. When we got there, there was another 5 or 6 people with the same trumped-up charge who were all denying it.

One by one they got called in & one by one came out smiling as the court threw each & every allegation out :lol:

 

The rules are clear regarding posting of documents

 

7 References to service by post

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

What more can you honestly have been expected to do? If you have to say anything at all, you must ask this question because the answer is 'nothing'. You have complied with the regs by completing the V5 & posting it - if they have lost it, it's not your problem.

 

More egg on the faces of the DVLA :D

 

Let us know how you got on.....

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bankchaser, if the DVLA prosecutor starts going on about chasing up acknowledgement letters, be sure to ask the prosecutor if the requirement to chase such a letter is covered by statute, and if so where. Also ask is the DVLA required by law to issue an acknowledgement letter. Remember to emphasise to the magistrates that the only method of notifying change of keeper, is by post, and you complied, as mkb has put.

Good luck tomorrow.

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I was found NOT GUILTY!

 

Magistrate just asked me to swear that I'd posted the document, which I did and I added that I had since bought a new car that is registered to me, and that it would be of no benefit for me to keep the old car in my name as I would be liable for tax/any parking tickets etc. DVLA didnt question it at all.

 

To be honest, there were hundreds of names on the Registrar's list and only a few of us turned up to defend ourselves. Obviously, for every person that bothers to contest and is found not guilty, there are at least x100 people that either paid the DVLA fine before it went to court, or didn't bother showing at court, so deemed guilty.

 

Just wondering now how to counterclaim for my loss of earnings/childcare/expenses etc?

 

Going to check on internet, but if anyone knows, it would be very helpful!

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Just wondering now how to counterclaim for my loss of earnings/childcare/expenses etc?

 

Going to check on internet, but if anyone knows, it would be very helpful!

 

You should have asked the Magistrates for costs when the verdict was delivered.

 

All you can do now is write the Court requesting that you be able to claim costs (because you "forgot in the heat of the moment") and enclosing a copy of your claim.

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Well done. :D

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I was found NOT GUILTY!

 

Magistrate just asked me to swear that I'd posted the document, which I did and I added that I had since bought a new car that is registered to me, and that it would be of no benefit for me to keep the old car in my name as I would be liable for tax/any parking tickets etc. DVLA didnt question it at all.

 

To be honest, there were hundreds of names on the Registrar's list and only a few of us turned up to defend ourselves. Obviously, for every person that bothers to contest and is found not guilty, there are at least x100 people that either paid the DVLA fine before it went to court, or didn't bother showing at court, so deemed guilty.

 

Just wondering now how to counterclaim for my loss of earnings/childcare/expenses etc?

 

Going to check on internet, but if anyone knows, it would be very helpful!

 

 

Nice work mate - Well done!

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DVLA didn't question me or offer any evidence. I think they just take a chance that most people will pay up, and those that do bother to contest it aren't really going to make a big difference to their days extortion!

 

Thanks everyone for your help on this. I went armed with the Interpretation Act and copy of invoice from Ebay proving the sale of the car in December, but none of it was asked to be seen...

 

Will let you all know what happens with me claiming costs... :)

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Perhaps DVLA aren't too keen on their arguments being closely scrutinised. Although magistrates does not set precedent, it is probably in their interest to let some cases go. Do you know if anybody else got off?

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didn't askl, but the lady who was called before me, went in with a solicitor and looked pretty triumphant when she came out! :o)

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Perhaps DVLA aren't too keen on their arguments being closely scrutinised. Although magistrates does not set precedent, it is probably in their interest to let some cases go. Do you know if anybody else got off?

 

In my opinion the DVLA don’t have any argument to be scrutinised! This court cases demonstrates that fact clearly. Who ever heard of taking someone to court and then providing absolutely no evidence? Who is picking up the bill for this charade?

 

What this also shows is how misleading the DVLA are with their various adverts and communications with drivers and defendants. Clearly the DVLA must know that case after case is being thrown out yet they continue to make false representations to people through letters. Surely this is nothing short of fraud on their part?

 

Ultimately the DVLA could end up having to refund a large proportion of their collected revenues. Their actions have left themselves open to a huge class action from people who have been hoodwinked by their bully-boy tactics.

 

 

N.

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I suppose DVLA play the numbers game. Many will fold before Court and pay up, and out of the others most probably don't turn up to Court and are found guilty in their absence. It is probably easier and cheaper for DVLA to offer no evidence to those that do turn up and submit a defence, as those that pay outweigh those that don't.

The only thing we can do is spread the word, so that more challenge DVLA.

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I suppose DVLA play the numbers game. Many will fold before Court and pay up, and out of the others most probably don't turn up to Court and are found guilty in their absence. It is probably easier and cheaper for DVLA to offer no evidence to those that do turn up and submit a defence, as those that pay outweigh those that don't.

The only thing we can do is spread the word, so that more challenge DVLA.

 

In that respect, the DVLA are no different to the PPCs that play the "numbers game" that we discuss all the time in the parking forum. And many of us would probibly say they appear to have about the same moral standards.

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In that respect, the DVLA are no different to the PPCs that play the "numbers game" that we discuss all the time in the parking forum. And many of us would probibly say they appear to have about the same moral standards.

I totally agree. I can understand the motive behind the PPCs, as they are answerable to nobody, and nothing ventured nothing gained. But, it is of major concern that it appears that a government agency constantly chances it's arm purely as a means to revenue raising, flouting the law (and wasting the Court's time) as it goes on it's merry way.

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