Jump to content

You can now change your notification sounds by going to this link https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/index.php?/&app=soundboard&module=soundboard&controller=managesounds

 

You can find a library of free notification sounds in several places on the Internet. Here's one which has a very large selection https://notificationsounds.com/notification-sounds

 

 

BankFodder BankFodder

 

BankFodder BankFodder


MAGDA

Strange Letter From Lloyds Tsb

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3654 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

I've been making payments (token) to LLoyds TSB for some time now on an outstanding debt. The agreement they provided for a Lloyds platinum visa card is, I think, a bit borderline, possilbly not enforceable, although it mentions terms overleaf and I think this contained the prescribed terms. Anyway, received a letter today saying that Lloyds basically want to give me a fresh start and therefore want to bring my account up to date by clearing all of the arrears for the payments they have asked us to pay in the past which we have not paid.

 

In order to do this, they need to make changes to condition 18.5 of our agreement and their letter is giving me notice for the purposes of this new condition 18.5, the arrears standing on your account at the date of this letter have now been cleared and they cannot demand immediate payment of those arrears in future. I will still owe them the amounts which form part of the outstanding balance on the account:confused:

 

Well, not sure what this is all about,or why they have done this. I won't be stupid enough to sign a new agreement that's for sure:rolleyes:

 

I don't understand why they have done this, is this usual with TSB?

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HMMM, it seems like they want to change an item in some T&C's that would help them rather than you.

Just by saying that the arrears will be cleared, will not clear the account balance. They have also most likely added defaults and interest etc.

Can you post up the agreeement and in particular the condition 18.5 they have mentioned? Old one first, then the new one.

Certainly dont sign anything, why ask you if they have a valid agreement in the first place. ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been making payments (token) to LLoyds TSB for some time now on an outstanding debt. The agreement they provided for a Lloyds platinum visa card is, I think, a bit borderline, possilbly not enforceable, although it mentions terms overleaf and I think this contained the prescribed terms. Anyway, received a letter today saying that Lloyds basically want to give me a fresh start and therefore want to bring my account up to date by clearing all of the arrears for the payments they have asked us to pay in the past which we have not paid.

 

In order to do this, they need to make changes to condition 18.5 of our agreement and their letter is giving me notice for the purposes of this new condition 18.5, the arrears standing on your account at the date of this letter have now been cleared and they cannot demand immediate payment of those arrears in future. I will still owe them the amounts which form part of the outstanding balance on the account:confused:

 

Well, not sure what this is all about,or why they have done this. I won't be stupid enough to sign a new agreement that's for sure:rolleyes:

 

I don't understand why they have done this, is this usual with TSB?

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

 

I've heard about this type of letter months ago possibly here or on other forums. I haven't the faintest idea what was advised at the time. Definitely need to have a close look at the exact wording of it.


.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, thanks for the replies. I could scan in the 'application' they sent in response to my cca, but apart from the hand written (personal) sections, it isn't very clear, so don't think there would be much point. It was headed "Asset platinum Application form and agreement" This part is just an application,with nothing more than personal details and our signatures. The reason I have carried on paying it though, is that like most of the TSB 'agreements' it states at the top "If we accept you application on our signature, this will form the Agreement on the conditions overleaf" They have then provided a separate sheet which supposedly was the overleaf, and this contains the prescribed terms (unfortunately). I have looked at the conditions they sent and there isn't any 18.5, it only goes up to condition 11, so I don't know where they got that from I'm sure. They haven't actually sent a new agreement, just the letter mentioned above. I really don't know what this is all about or why they have so called cleared the arrears. As you said bazaar we still owe the outstanding balance and we still will only make token payments, so really don't see the point. Are they up to something I wonder:confused:

 

magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ask them for the full terms and conditions including their supposed changes ;)


.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will do, will write to them asking what this is all about. It isn't as if they are going to allow us to use the card again (not that i'd want to now anyway) and we still have the balance to clear as well.

 

Thanks, Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe then you need to see what they have either an SAR or CPR request

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe then you need to see what they have either an SAR or CPR request

 

Hi, yes, I think you're right. There are probably a lot of unlawful charges on this account as well, so I can get that sorted at the same time.

 

many thanks, magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, since I posted last time, after we received the letter from LLoyds stating that to give us a fresh start, they were removing the arrears from our account, they have been up to more tricks.

 

We had an arrangement to pay £5 pm, which we have been doing. This account fell into arrears in 2004 and I'm pretty certain, because payments were way behind at that time, that a DN was issued, and the account facility was then removed/terminated.

 

We haven't been able to use the account since. However, on the last couple of statements, Lloyds has informed us we are dangerously in arrears, according to them two payments of £192ish have been missed, and we should contact them urgently.

 

I rang the number given and wouldn't you know, went through to a foreign call centre. Eventually I was given an address to write in to. I wrote yesterday, explaining that the account was defaulted some time ago (whether complying with Regulations though, I couldn't say) and that if it was their intention to issue a second DN they should be aware that I would take further action on this, as the account had already been defaulted and they cannot issued a second one. I also explained we had agreed to pay £5 pm etc....

 

Anyway, wouldn't you know it, today we received a DN giving us until 9th march to rectify the arrears which equates, they say, to two monthly payments outstanding.

 

I am really furious at this as we have around 13 defaults on our credit file and they are all due to drop off in the next couple of months. If Lloyds now place yet another default on our file, we are back to square one for another six years. Incidentally, they are reporting on our credit file as though the account were live, despite issuing a DN SIX years ago.

 

After all, if creditors keep re-issuing DN's every six years or so, none of us would ever get our credit files straight again!

 

I would really appreciate any help on what my next step should be.

 

Magda

Edited by MAGDA
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have looked at the conditions they sent and there isn't any 18.5, it only goes up to condition 11, so I don't know where they got that from I'm sure.

 

Are they up to something I wonder:confused:

 

A bank? Up to something? Nah :p

 

magda

 

Hi Magda, interested by this part of your thread. Do they intend to add this condition or amend an existing 18.5? Sure you stated they were amending an existent 18.5 so if you don't have that on your original terms and conditions, in addition to the ones between that and 11 something is very odd.

 

Lloyds have sent me a cca over a year ago for a loan but the paperwork reveals chunks of T&C's missing with points specifically referred to on the signature page. Lloyds state the paperwork is complete and everything they have on the loan has been sent from their storage facility in Peterlee.

Clearly not.

 

Just wondering if you have a similar situation with parts of your original T&C's missing? My account is in serious dispute and has been for quite some time, I've made no payments and Lloyds have only tried to insist I recommence payment a few times via [problem], their in house solicitors.

 

I've held firm and insisted that I want to see a complete set of the original T&C's and so far it's a bit of a stalemate. I'd request a full set of original T&C's once more and really pick this discrepancy up to resolve the issue ;).

 

Can't help suspect that Lloyds are perhaps trying a damage limitation exercise across the board and trying their luck perhaps?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi emandcole, will dig out the t&cs they have sent so far, and check again to see what's what. Will let you know what I discover. I am really annoyed about all of this, especially now that they have issued a second DN.

 

regards,

 

Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had a look at the LLoyds agreement, it isn't very clear and neither are the T&cs. I would think it was unenforceable as the application doesn't contain any prescribed terms, but it then mentions that the conditions of the agreement are overleaf.

 

There aren't really many references to the t&cs specifically on the application, although it does make reference to conditions xx xxx xx but I can't read them as it's too faint.

 

The t&cs state that I can terminate the agreement at any time by returning the card, well that was the case six years ago, so as far as I'm concerned it was terminated, whether they think that is the case or not.

 

I don't know if these t&cs actually are the original ones - it doesn't have any date on them, so difficult to know. I know they aren't current ones as there is no reference to £12 penalty charges. I think I will send a SAR and see what the interest rate was when the card was first taken out, and then compare that to the t&cs. There definitely isn't a condition numbered 18.5 on the t&cs they have provided - so this must be an amendment that was made at some point during the last few years - although I haven't a clue what it relates to.

 

Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been mentioned above there were a number of such queries about Lloyds on here some time ago.

 

The general consensus was that this was 'A Good Thing'. Any and all previous debts to them are being rolled up into what is effectively a new loan - for which there currently no arrears and therefore no possibility of defaults at this stage.

 

Points to watch out for -

1. Lloyds claim there is only one change to their agreement. It might be worth checking this out in detail - and also checking that the resulting agreement is compliant.

2. Check that the interest rate doesn't jump up lot. I don't think this will happen but it is always wise to double-check it.

3. Check out what happens with any default already registered with the credit reference agencies. Maybe Lloyds will agree to them being removed.

4. Check out that Lloyds will agree to payment terms that you can manage.

 

From my point of view Lloyds are behaving reasonably in this matter in allowing you a fresh start. I know everyone would like to see their existing debts wiped from the slate but that is a bit too much to expect.


I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As has been mentioned above there were a number of such queries about Lloyds on here some time ago.

 

The general consensus was that this was 'A Good Thing'. Any and all previous debts to them are being rolled up into what is effectively a new loan - for which there currently no arrears and therefore no possibility of defaults at this stage.

 

Points to watch out for -

1. Lloyds claim there is only one change to their agreement. It might be worth checking this out in detail - and also checking that the resulting agreement is compliant.

2. Check that the interest rate doesn't jump up lot. I don't think this will happen but it is always wise to double-check it.

3. Check out what happens with any default already registered with the credit reference agencies. Maybe Lloyds will agree to them being removed.

4. Check out that Lloyds will agree to payment terms that you can manage.

 

From my point of view Lloyds are behaving reasonably in this matter in allowing you a fresh start. I know everyone would like to see their existing debts wiped from the slate but that is a bit too much to expect.

 

 

Hi Palomino, they aren't behaving reasonable at all in letting me have a so called "fresh start" IMO. They didn't wipe the debt, the outstanding balance remained the same, but they removed any so called arrears, which to me made absolutely no difference at all, as I am not in a position to pay the required monthly amount, which they know.

 

I think they did this so that the account would appear 'live' again, and they have now sent a new DN stating that we are two months in arrears and need to rectify this by 9th March (so, I fail to see what their "fresh start" actually achieved, apart from landing me with a new DN) In actual fact, I should not need to ask them to remove any default on my file, as all of our defaults (because they all happened six years ago, including Lloyds, are due to drop off any day now).

 

If Lloyds now register a default on our file this far down the line, it is going to be six years again before it comes off.

 

We agreed to pay £5 per month and that's what we've been paying, but Lloyds has suddenly changed the goal posts and is saying that we owe £300+ in arrrears. They conveniently ignore the fact that this account fell into arrears six years ago!

 

I am absolutely furious with them, as it's just one more creditor who thinks they can do as they please.

 

I know you state that this appeared to be a good thing, because arrears were all rolled up into one new loan effectively (this is a credit card, by the way) but it really isn't - after all if you can't meet the contractual payment, how long before arrears accrue again, one month? two? and then as far as they are concerned they can default you yet again.

 

I did write to them the same day that they sent out the DN (without realising they obviously will have crossed) so will be interesting to see what they make of my letter. The other thing is, there will be considerable unlawful charges on this account and I am therefore going to do a SAR and see what that turns up (hopefully the orignal DN).

 

What I would actually like is for Lloyds to acknowledge that this account fell into arrears SIX years ago, was defaulted and the facility removed. The account is not 'live' - they probably realised the original DN was defective and they are looking for a way to rectify this - possibly with the intentionof taking us to court.

 

Lloyds are up to no good, which is all you can expect from a bank.

 

Many thanks for posting, Magda

Edited by MAGDA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Magda, sure I'm not adding anything you don't already know but this illegibility issue is a big one, how on earth are you expected to understand what it all says? Also, as I stated in my earlier post I have successfully headed Lloyds off for a long time now regarding the charges issue as they did not reserve any right to apply such costs to my account in the T&C's.

 

I argued that as they had not stated the figures they were going to charge that they had no right to do so. They argued a bit at first stating that they had mentioned the application of charges but admitted in a round about way that they had indeed failed to be specific.

 

For their argument to stand up they would have had to argue successfully that I was supposed to just guess that they'd apply X amount to the account in the event of any breach in the running of the account. Would it have been ok for them to charge £50,000 for a late payment any more than charging £1 for a late payment?

 

Course not, the charge if they are going to apply it has to be stated so the consumer is aware of the costs of the account from the beginning and Lloyds in my case, and I suspect a lot of others, failed to do this. My account was opened in 1997 by the way to give you an idea of the age, don't know how recent yours is.

 

I would categorically insist on getting a fully legible copy of the T&C's applicable at the time the account was opened and all T&C's since then to cover any unilateral variations they might have made. I'd try and forget about the default aspect for the time beginning and concentrate on sorting the actual paperwork out. Once you have an idea what's going on you'll be in a stronger position to then launch some kind of structured attack to get the past history of the account resolved, hopefully with the default notices sorted into the bargain.

 

Until they have complied with what is a pretty basic request I would refuse to agree to any changes they are asking of you. Quite rightly you should be able to assess the present situation before agreeing to anything else that may be detrimental to you.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the above emandcole, that's really helpful. My t&cs also state that they may apply charges, but as in your case, there is nothing specific - so thanks for drawing my attention to that.

 

I did inform them in my recent letter that the 'Application' they provided was largely illegible as were the t&cs, so will see if they provide anything that is easier to read. Also, will do as you suggest and ask for all of the amended t&cs to date, which i'm sure (at least since the account fell into difficulties) they haven't been providing.

 

The other thing as well is that they haven't provide any Notice of Arrears which they are now supposed to do, six monthly, I think.

 

Will let you know how it goes and what sort of response I get. Good luck also with your own 'battle' with them.

 

Oh, just to add, my account is from 2001.

 

regards, Magda

Edited by MAGDA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi guys

 

I have also last month received the same amendment 18.5 letter, stating they will give me a 'Fresh Start' but as we all know if you are late paying the credit card bill they take the money out of the current account anyway so I have no arrears!!

 

here is a link to my CCA with them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/223346-cca-request-question.html

 

thanks john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both Mrs H and myself have had the same letter over the last 4 or 5 weeks.

 

Anyone notice a pattern here? LTSB seem to have a bit of campaign going on here!

 

H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi guys

 

I have also last month received the same amendment 18.5 letter, stating they will give me a 'Fresh Start' but as we all know if you are late paying the credit card bill they take the money out of the current account anyway so I have no arrears!!

 

here is a link to my CCA with them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/223346-cca-request-question.html

 

thanks john

 

This all seems exactly the same as in my own case. The CCA you have posted up is very similar too, and the 'agreement' in my case also refers to the "terms overleaf" and they have also provided what they claim are the original t&cs - this was provided in response to my CCA request a couple of years ago, and I would think it's probably enforceable as it's probably all part of the same document (at least they will say that it is) - although it isn't very clear and is difficult to read.

 

Have been making reduced payments for some time, and the arrears had accrued since 2004, so I reallydon't see the point of that letter above, with the "fresh start" thing, unless we were able to use the card again and in a position to make the minimum monthly payment, which we are not.

 

We now have 'new' arrears on the account, and a nice new DN also, so I really don't see how that is helpful at all. Far from it.

 

I take it that your account is up to date at the moment and you are making your minimum payment from what you say. So, wonder why they sent this letter to you, very strange......

 

regards, Magda

 

Both Mrs H and myself have had the same letter over the last 4 or 5 weeks.

 

Anyone notice a pattern here? LTSB seem to have a bit of campaign going on here!

 

H

 

Yes, does seem to be a pattern doesn't there? Wonder what they are up to? You can be certain whatever it is, it isn't in our best interests... I wrote to Lloyds about all of this (I had an idea theywere going to try and issue a DN, and they did) but they have not replied so far. Wouldn't surprise me if they just ignore it.

 

 

regards, Magda

Edited by MAGDA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, just an update. I have received absolutely no response from Lloyds to my letter sent in February, nor the follow-up copy correspondence sent a few weeks later. Totally ignored. We received our statement today and the arrears has increased and very large sums of interest are now being placed on the account which means that the payment we are making each month is pointless - will be stopping that now and they have only themselves to blame.

 

The statement said that we must contact MHA collections - I rang them and said we had received no response to our letters and I would now be contacting the FOS and the OFT. The woman said "oh there is a note saying they are looking at your letter." I said this wasn't good enough and she could inform Lloyds that I was now placing the matter with the FOS. They could at least have acknowledged our letters and said they were looking into them, but didn't even have the courtesy to do that.

 

Nothing from Lloyds re: their DN either, they gave us until around 9th March to rectify and as we didn't, I expected to hear further, but nothing, just an ever increasing debt.

 

I rang the FOS and was told they have to officially allow the creditor 8 weeks before they can act, but to give it until next Friday, which will be the 8 week period, and then complete and return the form they are sending out in the meantime. She also said if Lloyds did reply by next Friday and I wasn't happy, then to complete the form, together with Lloyds letter and send it off.

 

Will wait and see if anything turns up by the end of next week, doubt it though....

 

Has anyone else heard anything more from LLoyds following the letters clearing arrears?

 

regards, Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, just been wondering, if a credit card account falls into arrears, but a payment plan is then negotiated with the lender and you make these payments religiously each month, should the lender then be reporting that you are say, 2 payments late or whatever. I've been having some problems with Lloyds Tsb and it seems they've been causing problems for a number of others on the forum as well. I had an account that hit problems around 2003/2004 and I'm pretty sure at that time they would have issued a DN. I then agreed to make payments of £5 pm, which they were happy with. No adverse reports were being made on our credit filelink3.gif and the interestlink3.gif was frozen. Recently though, Lloyds wrote and said as a gesture of goodwill they were clearing the arrears on the account to give us a fresh start. They've done this with other people as well. However, we weren't in a position to make the contractual payment, as well they knew, so of course, it was only a short time before 'new' arrears accrued, because although they hadn't said they would no longer accept our £5, it seems they were then expecting the full monthly payment and were charging interest again, all without informing us of this.

 

I wrote querying the arrears that was accruing and the interest, but they ignored our letters and issued a DN (the second one, as far as I am aware). I have involved the foslink3.gif and Lloyds on hearing this has suddenly responded 8 weeks down the line and after completely ignoring our letters up until now. I have the complaint form from the foslink3.gif which I can send off still if I need to.

 

My credit file, which is due to start looking a lot healthier soon as all of the defaults dating from 2004ish are due to drop off soon, is now showing adverse history reported by Lloyds, stating that we have been 2 payments in arrears, etc. Lloyds say that a default wasn't registered with the credit agencies six years ago and they can report like this now if they wish - even though we have actually been making the agreed payments of £5 each month and haven't missed any.

 

This all seems very wrong, as it is really going to mess our credit file up again. Lloyds has now said they are going to transfer our account to their Consumer Debt Recovery Dept and will accept £5 again, but we will receive legal type letters "some very strongly worded!"

 

Does anyone remember, do Lloyds usually issue a DN when an account falls into say three months arrears, regardless of whether they are still handling it, or whether it's been passed to their CDR dept? I seem to remember that they did - guess a Subject access requestlink3.gif is in order.

 

Sorry this is a bit long,

 

Many thanks, Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Magda, have good experience with Lloyds TSB. Have you got an agreement from them? Would defo SAR them, you might find something interesting.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi emandcole, think that will be my next move - see what turns up!

 

Magda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi yes they do issue DNs; they also post them a day later than they are dated; they are also often defective from that date; finally LTSB do not keep them and will fight you tooth and nail!!!

I think they are playing silly so and sos with all accounts from that date. I've just been taken off a payment plan, intereest being added and payments have gone from £11 to over £300:eek:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...