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    • Is this any better?  I've resigned myself to losing. Admittedly, I don't quite know what I'm doing. I just hope I get a remote hearing, that should save me some embarrassment.      1) The Claimants pleaded case is that the Defendant entered into an agreement with Provident subsequently assigned to Vanquis Bank Limited under account reference xxx.    2) It is admitted I have had financial dealings with Provident in the past. However, have no recollection of the alleged reference number the claimant refers to.   3) In February 2019 I made a formal written request to the Claimant for them to provide me with a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as entitled to do so under sections 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.    4) On the 21 June 2019 the Claimant sent a response which enclosed a reconstituted copy of an agreement, default notice, notice of assignment Provident to Vanquis, notice of assignment Vanquis to Lowell. [EXHIBIT x, x & x].   5) On 30/07/19, I received a claims form from the County Court Business Centre, Northampton, for the amount of £369.84. The claimant contends that the claim is for the sum of £369.84 in respect of monies owing under an alleged agreement with the account no xxxx  pursuant to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).   6) Contained within the claimants particulars the claimant states that the account was subject to assignment from Provident to Vanquis. The claimant states a further assignment to them occurred on 12/06/2017 with notice given.    7) It is denied notice of assignment from Provident to Vanquis and subsequently Vanquis to Lowell were ever received.    😎 The claimant states documents were received at both addresses. The claimant doesn’t appear able to confirm my address and therefore cannot say with certainty said documents were received. Furthermore, the client did not issue said documents and therefore cannot prove delivery.     9) It is denied any communication took place with myself and Vanquis Bank Limited. Any alleged legal assignment to part of the “Fresh Start” initiative had not been informed. I have no previous knowledge.   10) Under the consumer credit act 2006, until debts have been repaid, there is an obligation to send statements and notices to the debtor at prescribed intervals at no more than 12 months. The statement should explain the money borrowed, money paid, interest in all cases and the outstanding amount. Consequences of failing to make repayments and the opportunity of making minimum payments.   11) The Claimant has submitted a statement of accounts dated March 2019. This having followed my request for a credit consumer agreement. It is denied this document and any such required statement of accounts required under section 77A during the alleged agreement were ever received.   12) The claimant states that a default notice was issued on 18thJanuary 2017. The notice of default provided by the Claimant, dated, 18thJanuary 2017. The payment date requested by Vanquis Bank Limited,  28thFebruary 2017. The formal Notice of Default that was allegedly enclosed at the same time displays a requested payment date, 28thFebruary 2019. (Exhibit x, x)   13) I argue that this is not in fact a COPY of an original default notice, that they state was issued during February 2017, but that this is a fabricated version of a default notice created by Lowell. Either way the default notice was not issued by the assigned creditor (Vanquis).   14) It is therefore contended that the original creditor failed to serve a valid Default Notice pursuant to section 87(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor of a regulated agreement.   15) The Claimant states a default notice was not required. If there is a default in payments during the fixed term a default notice must be issued. The Claimant states they were informed a default notice was sent on 18thJanuary. The Claimants case relies upon being informed and does not constitute fact.   16) It is denied a default notice was ever received.    17) It is admitted I responded to the Claimant’s pre-action protocol letter addressed in my name. I indicated I did not know if I owed the debt. I indicated as such having no recollection of affiliation with Vanquis nor Lowell. A default for the allege debt appearing on my credit file only November 2019.    18) I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income.   As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   19) Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
    • Ok I’m still thinking about this PayPal but only because ive been reading other forums and them saying that PayPal sells the debt to other companies and then they chase you for it .   Here are the other debts I have below and I’m still paying them all but now really struggling with it as I’m now full carer and no tidy income. None of these have I failed to pay yet to date and ive never been to court or anything and no criminal record ive always been clean & tidy and always paid things without fail but due to circumstances already said about ive now got deeper in owing more and just really struggling now and cant afford all the payments I’m paying plus then all the interest that keeps going back on them.   Nationwide building society credit card  £4,400 Nationwide building society overdraft £345 Capital 1  £2,594 Argos credit/store card £1,904   the wife also has   Nationwide credit card £1,600 Argos credit/store card  £1,875 Capital 1  £1,280   Its the Nationwide bank I’m really wanting to keep sweet as ive been with them since I was like 17 and I’m 50 now plus I use it for all direct debits and car insurance / life insurance etc etc plus I rely on the overdraft from month to month.   
    • Brassnecked you said DCBL are being toothless bullies but as the letter says, 'This case is not subject to high court or bailiff action', I was assuming they wouldn't be allowed to visit the property anyway, and even if they did, they aren't entitled to enter or to take anything away,,, isn't that the case?
    • you should be reading up between the diff stages of the claim CAG is self help too!!   no to mediation  1 wit you the rest is obv   3 copies  court their solicitors your file
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As a follow up to one of my earlier threads on this subject , I contacted Ross and Roberts regarding fees that I disagreed with following advice given to me on this forum. Advice that turned out to be spot on !!. Very quickly , I had fees of £77.50 that R & R told me was for a first visit fee...£ 24.50..............levy fee....£ 41.00.............WP fee.....£12.00.

I queried this figure after been advised that the first visit fee should not have been applied as they managed to levy. I recieved a email on Friday from R & R saying that " The fees given previously were incorrect , and the fees that you have been charged , is as follows........levy fee £41.50.........WP £12.00..............SEC H £24.50 ".

What is this SEC H ??. Is it a coincedence that this so-called £24.50 SEC H fee , is exactly the same as the visit fee !!!!!!. Is it a case of what they can't get with one hand , they will try with another !!! I have read many many stories on this forum , and I don't think I have heard of this SEC H before. Any advice would be most welcome !!!!


Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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posted by martin 3030

 

announcement from ACEO (Association of Civil enforcement officers )

 

Fees Charged under Head H - Council Tax Following criticisms regarding the charging of fees under Head H to Schedule 5 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 this association sought legal opinion as to the legality of such charges.

This legal opinion unequivocally stated that the Fee under Head H of Schedule 5, 'where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender' in accordance with section 45 (4) of the regulations, is perfectly legitimate and in accordance with the regulations. Furthermore, the fixed fee, currently £24.50, is recoverable regardless of the actual costs incurred.

ACEA fully endorses the right of its member companies to charge such a fee and strongly encourages the use of such incontestable statutory fees, where appropriate.

however legislation states if they are charging a levy fee and a walking possession fee they cant charge another fee on the day

schedule 5 section 45 (4)

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor

Edited by hallowitch

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posted by martin 3030

 

announcement from ACEO (Association of Civil enforcement officers )

 

Fees Charged under Head H - Council Tax Following criticisms regarding the charging of fees under Head H to Schedule 5 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 this association sought legal opinion as to the legality of such charges.

This legal opinion unequivocally stated that the Fee under Head H of Schedule 5, 'where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender' in accordance with section 45 (4) of the regulations, is perfectly legitimate and in accordance with the regulations. Furthermore, the fixed fee, currently £24.50, is recoverable regardless of the actual costs incurred.

ACEA fully endorses the right of its member companies to charge such a fee and strongly encourages the use of such incontestable statutory fees, where appropriate.

 

however legislation states if they are charging a levy fee and a walking possession fee they cant charge another fee on the day

 

schedule 5 section 45 (4)

 

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor

 

Thank you Hallowitch.

I do not wish to sound rude or unappreciative , but I did not understand anything in your reply !!!. Could you please tell me in laymans terms the gist of your post. When I read schedule this , and section that , my brain dies !!!. Mother nature was a tad mean when she dished out the comprehension bit !!!!!!


Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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but I did not understand anything in your reply sorry about that Ive got a house full all looking for Sunday dinner was in a bit of a hurry :eek:

 

 

the association of civil enforcement say it is OK to make a charge under header H (not the government)

 

the council tax administration and enforcement regulations 1992

don't have a header fee H (well not the regulations we are allowed to see )

 

they are quoting schedule 5 section 45 (4) posted bellow

in my opinion section (4) is when the come to try remove the goods on the levy

pursuance dictionary definition ( the act of trying to achieve) .(had to look that up)

 

if i post it with (3) it may help

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with

 

 

 

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor

 

 

no matter what they call it legislation states if they are charging a levy fee and a walking possession fee they cant charge another fee on the day

Edited by hallowitch

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but I did not understand anything in your reply sorry about that Ive got a house full all looking for Sunday dinner was in a bit of a hurry :eek:

 

 

the association of civil enforcement say it is OK to make a charge under header H (not the government)

 

the council tax administration and enforcement regulations 1992

don't have a header fee H (well not the regulations we are allowed to see )

 

they are quoting schedule 5 section 45 (4) posted bellow

in my opinion section (4) is when the come to try remove the goods on the levy

pursuance dictionary definition ( the act of trying to achieve) .(had to look that up)

 

if i post it with (3) it may help

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with

 

 

 

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor

 

 

no matter what they call it legislation states if they are charging a levy fee and a walking possession fee they cant charge another fee on the day

 

You need to ask this company to provide you with the statutory regulation that allows this fee to be charged. In addition you may wish to contact the locla authority to ask them to confirm whether they have agreed that their agents can charge this fee !!

 

It is simply not good enough for them to say that the Association of Civil Enforcement Agents thinks that it is OK to apply this fee. The ACEA represent BAILIFF COMPANIES !!!

 

ACEA have made this statement on the basis of opinion from a Barrister. HOWEVER....there were TWO legal opinions.(both of which I have read !!) .....and the second one CLEARLY confirms that a Head "H" fee CANNOT BE APPLIED. ACEA have ignored this one.

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Tomtubby and Hallowitch , thank you both very much for your replies. It is very appreciated. I will contact the LA to see if they have agreed to their agents charging this fee , and also contact R & R to provide me with the statutory regulation that allows this fee to be charged.

I will let you know what happens !!


Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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Well , after many days waiting I have recieved the following reply regarding HEAD H fees. I quote ,

" please note that although the administration fee in accordance with section h is added to the account on the date where the levy and wp take place , the fee is not paid untill the whole debt is paid to the council. Therefore the debt owed to the council is paid afterwards the administration fee in accordance with sec h fee is paid.

This fee is charged in accordance with the council tax (administration and enforcement )act regulations 1992 - regulations 45 ( as amended ).

With regards to the claims made regarding ACEA'S councels opinion , please note that I am unable to comment on their behalf , and as far as we are aware , there were 1 councels opinion and various different independant (not legal) opinions , I would recommend that you contact ACEA direct to request any further information you may require from them "

So in laymans terms , what does all this actualy mean ?. I have refused to pay any money that I consider to be to be unfair after following advice on this forum. I have also stated that should it be proven beyond any doubt that certain fees ARE applicable despite the good intentions of any advice given on this forum , then I would pay the fees. I am fully aware that advice given on this forum is just that.............advice .

Edited by Santa Maria

Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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I would be truly grateful if anyone could respond to this as I need to make quick decisions in order to make any progress !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand that there are far more urgent queries than mine , but if anyone could find a few minutes I would be very grateful


Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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This is what they are quoting

 

Distress

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

 

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

    (a) an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

    (b) a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

 

(6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales.

 

(7) A distress shall not be deemed unlawful on account of any defect or want of form in the liability order, and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser on that account; and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser from the beginning on account of any subsequent irregularity in making the distress, but a person sustaining special damage by reason of the subsequent irregularity may recover full satisfaction for the special damage (and no more) by proceedings in trespass or otherwise.

 

(8) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect the operation of any enactment which protects goods of any class from distress.

 

(9) Nothing in the Distress (Costs) Act 1817[22], as extended by the Distress (Costs) Act 1827[23], (which makes provision as to the costs and expenses of the levying of certain distresses) shall apply to a distress under this regulation.

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Appeals in connection with distress

46.—(1) A person aggrieved by the levy of, or an attempt to levy, a distress may appeal to a magistrates' court.

 

(2) The appeal shall be instituted by making complaint to a justice of the peace, and requesting the issue of a summons directed to the authority which levied or attempted to levy the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter by which the person is aggrieved.

 

(3) If the court is satisfied that a levy was irregular, it may order the goods distrained to be discharged if they are in the possession of the authority; and it may by order award compensation in respect of any goods distrained and sold of an amount equal to the amount which, in the opinion of the court, would be awarded by way of special damages in respect of the goods if proceedings were brought in trespass or otherwise in connection with the irregularity under regulation 45(7).

 

(4) If the court is satisfied that an attempted levy was irregular, it may by order require the authority to desist from levying in the manner giving rise to the irregularity.

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I would be truly grateful if anyone could respond to this as I need to make quick decisions in order to make any progress !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand that there are far more urgent queries than mine , but if anyone could find a few minutes I would be very grateful

 

The reply from R & R does NOT confirm they they are allowed to apply this charge. Have you written to the local authority to ask them if they have permitted their agents to charge this fee?

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The reply from R & R does NOT confirm they they are allowed to apply this charge. Have you written to the local authority to ask them if they have permitted their agents to charge this fee?

 

Thank you tomtubby. I have contacted the council twice regarding this, ( by email and phone ), and as yet had no response. The emails go unanswered , and the phone calls get passed from pillar to post with no answer at the end except the usual " we will get in touch with you ". Its almost as if they are asking each other , " did we say you can do this ?", and , " can we actualy charge this?" type of scenario !!!!

Hillarious in a " Carry on bailiff " kind of film , but certainly not in real life. Why oh why can't the powers that be answer simple questions?


Light travels faster than sound.............that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

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