rate of pay

[shuggler]

Hi can you give advice please on the following, I was given a contract to sign for doing work which is a bit different to my normal job on a temporary bassis but the pay was more than my normal rate, now that i have returned to my normal job my rate is still on the higher rate, do i have to tell them about this and do i have to pay back the over payment:rolleyes: My heart say's yes but my pocket say's NO:razz:

[mariefab]

I'd listen to your heart in this instance.

[BeauBrummie]

You should inform the relevant people immediatley in writing. If the employer finds out that the rate is wrong they do have rights to ask for any overpayment to be returned. You will be in a better bargaining position if you volunteer the information rather than your employer finding out for themselves.

 

Beau

[orfoster]

Agree. You will be required to repay any overpayment on your normal contract and although you can to some degree state the amount of repayment depending on your income expenditure analysis.

 

I would suggest making it clear now. I know how tempting it is to leave it and have the extra cash for now but they will find out in the end and make you repay.

 

They could potentially cause issues if they believe you knew. Just wouldn't want anyone to have potential problems in this environment.

[shuggler]

Thanks for the comments folks will do the honest thing and phone the wages dept on mon save any hassle

[patdavies]

Thanks for the comments folks will do the honest thing and phone the wages dept on mon save any hassle

 

No, do it in writing - this will give you an audit trail if they fail to act.

 

Since payroll can only act on the instructions given. In your position, I would merely inform my manager in writing and let him/her deal with it - that's what managers are paid for. If they fail to deal with it then keep the money.

[crem]

You may well find as well, provided the overpayment hasn't been going on for too long, that they only correct your pay for the next available payday, without reclaiming money already paid.

 

I would say this would be especially true if it was your own manager, the one you are going to write to anyway as patdavies says, who maybe has made a cock-up in not changing it back. My experience of big business managers is that if a "small" mistake like this can be neatly massaged over without drawing attention to their original mistake, then that is the best way to go.

[bazak1]

Have to agree, please ALWAYS do these kind of requests in writing. Keep a copy yourself, and send the original in, ( preferably getting a written receipt if possible ).

Pat is quite right, once you have informed your line manager, it is then his / her responsibility to correct the problem.

[shuggler]

Yeah i tend to agree with putting it in writing as there is a lot of power shifting in the office dept just now with the company being taken over by large blue chip company at times you dont know who you are dealing with, had loads of trouble trying to get expense's sorted etc plenty of buck passing going on, so will be in my best interest to put in writing, thanks very much for the advice troops.

[shuggler]

Well did the honest thing and informed my line manager who sent off an e-mail to wages dept, got a copy of e-mail, got my pay slip today and nothing has changed, what now?? give it another week? can they just take the overpayment off in one, or do it at an agreed sum.

[orfoster]

Any money you have been paid over your normal rate of pay would need to be agreed by a repayment plan. This would be covered in the Employment Rights Act (I think) have a look.

[elche]

Any money you have been paid over your normal rate of pay would need to be agreed by a repayment plan. This would be covered in the Employment Rights Act (I think) have a look.

 

In deed, the ERA does help in this matter, but in the short term, it helps the employer more than the employee.

 

However, one cynical angle, is to send a provable communication to your employer informing them of their error re the overpayment.

 

Keep proof of sending / receipt, and sit back. If following this, it goes on for some time, wait until a significant amount has accrued (about 6 months), then act on this to 'change your position' e.g. buy something large and expensive you want.

 

Then this argument, from a previous post is open to you:

 

WAIT

 

There is an argument, that where a over payment has been made, which was accepted in good faith, over a long period of time that has led to the employee changing their position (e.g. by buying a new car like you did), then there is a possibility that you could defeat your employer's attempt to re-claim the money.

 

Allow me to explain with the following quotation from

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/199165-overpayment-wages-firm.html

 

For an example of such a common law action, see Avon County Council v Howlett , CA (employee defeating employer's claim for repayment of overpaid wages, on the basis of estoppel since the employee had innocently spent some of the money); however, the reasoning behind this decision (though not necessarily its result) was later queried in the House of Lords in Lipkin Gorman v Karpnale Ltd [1991] 3 WLR 10, HL where Lord Goff stated that such cases should be dealt with, not on the basis of estoppel, but rather on the basis of a general defence of change of position in the law of restitution, a defence which will have to be developed fully on a case-by-case basis. However, severe doubt was cast on the above interpretation of sub-s (1) (ie that the deduction must be lawful on general principles first, if this exclusion is to be relied upon) by the decision of the EAT in Sunderland Polytechnic v Evans , [1993] ICR 392 (a case under sub-s (5), below) in which Wood P stated that the subsection should be applied as it stands, and that some of the reasoning in Home Office v Ayres may no longer stand. The latter approach was applied directly to sub-s (1) by the EAT in SIP (Industrial Products) Ltd v Swinn . The point awaits final resolution by a higher court, but in the meantime the later approach (in Evans and Swinn) should probably be followed. This can be seen in Gill v Ford Motor Co Ltd , EAT but the additional point was made (under both sub-s (1) and sub-s (5)) that there is middle ground, in that a tribunal may have to consider on the evidence whether the relevant ground of exemption actually existed, ie it is not enough that the employer merely asserts that it does; this does not offend the principle in Evans and Swinn.

 

As you can see the law is not precise in this area. However, it is not a route you should go down without thinking about the impact on your relationship with your employer and the possibility of court costs being awarded if you lost - if the amount is outside small claims limit.

 

However, the converse is also true for your employer, and there is a possibility that action could be taken in ET, and therefore costs awards would be unlikely.

 

A cynical, manipulative and wholly immoral piece of advice - I'm ashamed

 

But ask yourself, would they 'try it on with you?'

 

A cynical Che

[shuggler]

Thanks Elchie, as for trying it on? i wouldn't be surprised as it is not the same company it used to be, when it was a family run buisness it was much better you knew who to contact if you had any problems and things got sorted, but now its been taken over by a large blue chip company its in a mess we have seen some changes now and there is more to come and not for the good either. But i suppose its good to have a job these days, will see if anything happens regards wages will give update if it does cheers;)

[shuggler]

Update, they have finally woken up, now they want ALL the money back that has been overpaid, even after i told them they continued to overpay me for a further two weeks. They have went all the way back to wk 1, and said i owe them £960.00 then did a bit of a re-shuffle and ended up with a sum of £720.00 which i think is wrong, but the way they explained it does not make any sense to me (think that is the idea) so will have to ask for a break down as to how they have reached this amount, they have also said they will not take it off in one swipe (nice of them) but would look at doing it over ten weeks?? at £70 a week i cannot afford. Can anyone advise on how to deal with this please.

[mariefab]

Look at your normal payslips from before the increase (because of the temporary different work) to discover your normal pay (A).

 

Look at the payslips that show the increase due to the different work and calculate how much extra you were paid per week (B).

 

Remember the date you returned to your normal work and calculate how many weeks you have, since that date, been overpaid for ©.

 

Then calculate B - A x C = £ ?

 

If this figure differs from the amount they are claiming then present them with your breakdown in writing (as above) and ask them to explain the difference.

[shuggler]

Yes i have done this and the difference is about £10 but i was wondering about the amount of tax and ins i have paid at the higher rate which i think should be taken into account, also when i flagged this up in the first place it took them a further two weeks to act, if i take that off it then comes down to £465? i feel they should have made the adjustment sooner as they had enough time to do so then the original figure would not be £720 but £465 or even less if tax and ins were included.

[shuggler]

Finally got this sorted they have now agreed that i should pay back the sum of £365.00 after some arguement although they did want it in payments of £50.00 per week but i dug my heels in and said all i could afford was £10.00 per week:wink: they were not happy about it but gave in and agreed, happy days.