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BARCLAYCARD-No CCa? Any action Group?


roygoodbeat
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Looking at these forums, it would appear that Barclaycard follow the same pattern when requesting the CCA. They send terms and conditions for Barclaycard, even if the original card may have been with another provider. They then claim that they have statisfied their obligations and flatly refuse to send a copy of the signed original agreement.

They then get mercers to do their dirty work. As a debt collection agent they probally scare people into paying, even though there is no valid credit agreement in place.

 

Why do Barclays act outside the law and ignore all the rules and regs. Is it due to their size and/or arrogence.

 

As a collective, it may be an idea for people with similar experiences to go to the oft, trading standards and demand action against barclays. Does anyone know of an organisation or group that already exists??

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Hi RGB,

 

Apart from CAG, No !

 

Users have complained to the OFT, the FOS, TS and anyone else who'll listen. But BC continue to avoid sending out credit agreements as their standard policy. :mad:

Edited by slick132
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  • 4 months later...

Perhaps it is time someone did. After reading many peoples experiences, it would appear that its the authories that are not effective in enforcing the rules and laws.

 

Perhaps an action group is needed to force them to enforce the rules and laws and not let the law breaking banks get away with things.

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  • 9 months later...

After threats from Mercers, then the rest, all went quite for 5 months, then its starting again.

 

First the standard letter that they have complied with their obligations and just sent t&c's- Still no credit agreement

 

Now with Westcotts we have threatening legal action.

 

I understood that as the agreement had been varied, they were obliged to send a copy. This was also backed up by Waksman in the Carey Case.

 

Any advice? I am fed up with this game as I have given barclays plenty of time to come up with this. They did not send it with my section 78 request or by subject access request.

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Hi Roy,

 

They did not send it with my section 78 request
They won't, and will maintain they are right to continue to seek payment.

 

This impasse will only be sorted if and when they take it to court, which they are unlikely to do.

 

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Was going to send something like this or should I ignore them?

 

I acknowledge no debt to your client or yourselves.

This account is in dispute with Barclaycard and has been since 01st July 2009. Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from 27th April and 12th June 2009 has NOT been answered.

 

As Barclaycard are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

Barclaycard or any of their representatives have failed to respond to my legal requests.

They have failed to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

1) On 12th June 2009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

Barclaycard have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 01st July 2009.

 

Furthermore, they are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client entered into a default situation.

Barclaycard have only sent me a blank copy of the terms and conditions. Whilst only in the case of myself taking Barclaycard to court, I also refer you to the judgement made by his honour Judge Waksman in the Carey V HSBC case. The information that Barclaycard have sent falls short of what is deemed as acceptable.

2) Barclaycard have failed to supply me with all the documents in my Subject Access Request made on the 27th April 2009, requested including a copy of my original credit agreement. Accordingly, I have to tell you that Barclaycard have not yet complied with their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

3) Barclaycard have failed to comply with my section 10 request under the Data Protection Act.

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Barclaycard for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Westons cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Westons chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Unless Barclaycard remedies these breaches and responds to my other letters, in line with the regulations and laws that Barclaycard and yourselves must abide by, I have no legal obligation to respond further to you.

Yours Sincerely

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Hi RGB,

 

Send the letter if you want. Whether Wescotts read it or believe what you say .......... that's another matter.

 

It's a bit long TBH and I would suggest you make it much shorter. Perhaps mention the section of Waksman's Judgement which requires multiple T&C's where they have been varied.

 

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Trimmed it slightly

 

I acknowledge no debt to your client or yourselves.

 

This account is in disputewith Barclaycard and has been since 01st July 2009. Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from 27th April and 12th June 2009 has NOT been answered.

 

Barclaycard or any of their representatives have failed to respond to my legal requests.

 

1) On 12th June 2009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

Barclaycard have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 01st July 2009 and is in dispute.

 

Barclaycard have only sent me a blank copy of the terms and conditions. I refer you to the judgement made by his honour Judge Waksman in the Carey V HSBC case. The information that Barclaycard have sent falls short of what is deemed as acceptable.

Judge Waksman stated “If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still supply a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms”. Barclaycard have not sent a copy of the original agreement along with the original terms and conditions. In addition, they have not sent copies of any variations. Further more “The s.78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor, as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement “ The terms and conditions do not contain these.

 

2) Barclaycard have failed to supply me with all the documents in my Subject access request made on the 27th April 2009. This included a copy of my original credit agreement. Accordingly, I have to tell you that Barclaycard have not yet complied with their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

 

3) Barclaycard have failed to comply with my section 10 request under the Data Protection Act.

 

Barclaycard have done nothing to resolve the situation and been unhelpful. This dispute could have been resolved a long time ago if Barclaycard had wanted to resolve this.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Barclaycard for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Westons cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Westons chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Unless Barclaycard remedies these breaches and responds to my other letters, in line with the regulations and laws that Barclaycard and yourselves must abide by, I have no legal obligation to respond further to you.

 

Yours Sincerely

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I have adjusted this letter slightly in light of the OFT review. Had Weston's solicitors write today. What happens if they do produce something such as an application form?

 

I write with reference to your letter dated xxxx. I acknowledge no debt to your client or yourselves. For your information, this account is in dispute with Barclaycard and has been since 01st July 2009.

My previous dispute from 27th April and 12th June 2009 has NOT been answered.

 

Barclaycard or any of their representatives have failed to respond to my legal requests.

 

1) On 12th June 2009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

Barclaycard have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 01st July 2009 and is in dispute.

 

Barclaycard have only sent me a blank copy of the terms and conditions. I refer you to the judgement made by his honour Judge Waksman in the Carey V HSBC case. The information that Barclaycard have sent falls short of what is deemed as acceptable. Furthermore;

 

Judge Waksman stated “If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still supply a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms”. Barclaycard have not sent a copy of the original agreement along with the original terms and conditions. In addition, they have not sent copies of any variations. Further more “The s.78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor, as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement “ The terms and conditions do not contain these.

 

Furthermore the OFT published guildlines on the 16th October 2010 confirming what is allowed and what is not acceptable to a Section 78 request. Barclaycard have failed to comply with what is required.

2) Barclaycard have failed to supply me with all the documents in my Subject access request made on the 27th April 2009. This included a copy of my original credit agreement. Accordingly, I have to tell you that Barclaycard have not yet complied with their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

PLEASE NOTE: that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents.

This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

In addition, the OFT recently have also pointed out that “If the creditor or owner is aware that there was never an executed agreement and one was required, it would be misleading and an unfair business practice to try and conceal that fact, either by suggesting that the agreement cannot now be found or by creating a copy agreement purporting to be a true copy. If the reason why no copy is given to a request under these sections is that there never was an executed agreement, the creditor or owner should acknowledge this in its response.

 

3) Barclaycard have done nothing to resolve the situation and been unhelpful. This dispute could have been resolved a long time ago if Barclaycard had wanted to resolve this. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. The courts attention will be drawn to the fact that Barclaycard have had amply opportunity to resolve this dispute and any additional costs incurred will be of their own making.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Barclaycard for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Westons or yourselves cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Westons or yourselves chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

If you are Barclaycard are unable to produce the requested credit agreement, then you must confirm so within the next 14 days.

Unless Barclaycard remedies these breaches and responds to my other letters, in line with the regulations and laws that Barclaycard and yourselves must abide by, I have no legal obligation to respond further to you.

 

Yours Sincerely

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  • 1 month later...

Orginally requested in May 2009, at last I get a copy of their application form. Can anyone suggest what to write in response as this does not look like a valid credit agreement. I have also attached t&c's they sent last august which does not look like what would have appeared on the rear.

 

Any ideas on what to respond. Still does not comply with the Carey ruling but at least I have this now.

 

Here it is at the bottom of this :

 

I have adjusted this letter slightly in light of the OFT review. Had Weston's solicitors write today. What happens if they do produce something such as an application form?

 

I write with reference to your letter dated xxxx. I acknowledge no debt to your client or yourselves. For your information, this account is in dispute with Barclaycard and has been since 01st July 2009.

 

My previous dispute from 27th April and 12th June 2009 has NOT been answered.

 

Barclaycard or any of their representatives have failed to respond to my legal requests.

 

1) On 12th June 2009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

Barclaycard have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 01st July 2009 and is in dispute.

 

Barclaycard have only sent me a blank copy of the terms and conditions. I refer you to the judgement made by his honour Judge Waksman in the Carey V HSBC case. The information that Barclaycard have sent falls short of what is deemed as acceptable. Furthermore;

 

Judge Waksman stated “If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still supply a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms”. Barclaycard have not sent a copy of the original agreement along with the original terms and conditions. In addition, they have not sent copies of any variations. Further more “The s.78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor, as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement “ The terms and conditions do not contain these.

 

 

Furthermore the OFT published guildlines on the 16th October 2010 confirming what is allowed and what is not acceptable to a Section 78 request. Barclaycard have failed to comply with what is required.

 

2) Barclaycard have failed to supply me with all the documents in my Subject access request made on the 27th April 2009. This included a copy of my original credit agreement. Accordingly, I have to tell you that Barclaycard have not yet complied with their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

PLEASE NOTE: that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents.

 

This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

 

In addition, the OFT recently have also pointed out that “If the creditor or owner is aware that there was never an executed agreement and one was required, it would be misleading and an unfair business practice to try and conceal that fact, either by suggesting that the agreement cannot now be found or by creating a copy agreement purporting to be a true copy. If the reason why no copy is given to a request under these sections is that there never was an executed agreement, the creditor or owner should acknowledge this in its response.

 

3) Barclaycard have done nothing to resolve the situation and been unhelpful. This dispute could have been resolved a long time ago if Barclaycard had wanted to resolve this. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. The courts attention will be drawn to the fact that Barclaycard have had amply opportunity to resolve this dispute and any additional costs incurred will be of their own making.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Barclaycard for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Westons or yourselves cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Westons or yourselves chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 

If you are Barclaycard are unable to produce the requested credit agreement, then you must confirm so within the next 14 days.

 

Unless Barclaycard remedies these breaches and responds to my other letters, in line with the regulations and laws that Barclaycard and yourselves must abide by, I have no legal obligation to respond further to you.

 

Yours Sincerely

img-Z14130227-0001.pdf

Edited by roygoodbeat
to clarify info
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Hi RGB,

 

With the Application form and their T&C's, you will have a tough job persuading BC, Mercers, Westcott, Trading Standards or the FOS that BC have failed to comply with the requirements of s.78 CCA 1974. I know the argument remains that T&C's could be needed for each occasion when they were altered but I don't think this will enable you to convince anyone that the a/c remains in dispute.

 

BC or their DCA's will now pursue payments.

 

My comments in post #5 above still apply - the only way you're likely to find out if BC have a valid credit agreement is if they take you to court to enforce the a/c.

 

Remember, even if they don't have the original agreement with all the Prescribed Terms, there's a chance that a judge may side with the bank and make a CCJ against you.

 

It may therefore be prudent to consider making arrangements to pay something that you can afford monthly.

 

I assume you've reclaimed all penalty charges and PPI, both with compound interest in restitution.

 

8)

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Ok.

 

I can see where we are. Barclays still have not forefilled what is fully required, as per carey case.

 

Assuming that this is all they have, what defence can I mount. From experience they may use this as ther credit agreement. What is wrong with it?

 

I can then make an offer on the basis that therefore they are not entitled to enforce it through the courts. Equally as they have not produced the required docuements from my s78 request and subject access request they are not entitled to enforce it through the courts.

 

Again, looking at the info I have suppled, I cannot see any reference to the dat protection act. Does that have to appear on it?

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Hi RGB,

 

BC probably HAVE fulfilled their requirements enough to satisfy those who are involved, even though the OFT Guidance says they should provide more. But there's nothing to stop you taking the matter up with the FOS complaining that BC haven't fully complied according to the OFT Guidance on s.78 CCA 1974 compliance - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf - Sections 2.20 to 2.28 are probably the most relevant.

 

If BC took you to court using the Application, their case should fail on the basis of legibility and the document lacking the Prescribed Terms required by CCA 1974. See the Guide to Checking your Credit Agreement at Link No2 in my signature.

 

Not sure what you mean about the Data Protection Act. That's only relevant to a SAR request.

 

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As I said in my last post, read Link No2 on how to check your credit agreement, which covers all aspects of agreements.

 

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Sorry to sounding slightly stupid, but I have read both the application form and the t&c's they say applied at the time of the agreement. (They will not confirm that these were the actual ones.)

 

I am unsure if this has the prescribed terms. Could someone have a look?

 

Thanks

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HI RGB,

 

The Microfiche copy of the Application does not contain the Prescribed Terms as required.

 

The T&C's which they also sent to you appear to NOT be part of the Application, or even related to the Application.

 

You could therefore reasonably say the 2 documents were never part of the same single document. Thus, the Application form should not be enough for BC to get the debt enforced by a court.

 

However, we have seen some judgements in favour of banks, even when we think it incorrect. It is down to the "Judge Lottery".

 

As said before, you will only get to find out if you allow a case to go that far, and the bank takes you to court.

 

In the meantime, the CCA response will be considered to be sufficient for the bank and DCA's to pursue the debt by normal means of collection, default notice, bad credit markers, etc.

 

8-)

Edited by slick132
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I agree, they are not the same copies or type face. What would you suggest I reply with? I still consider this account in dispute as Barclays ignored my section 10 request and have not supplied the correct info.

 

Assuming that these are what they will use in court, what is wrong with them in terms of prescribed terms. I am having trouble trying to see what would be wrong.

 

I am in two minds wether to sit it out or make a full and final settlement offer based on them not compying with my subject access request, passing my details onto a third party (There is not data proection notice on the original application form, failing on my section 10 request, unlawful bank charges, and not complying with the oft's guidelines (As per Carey Judgement) as what is required on s78 request.

 

Furthermore, if the agreement is defective, then they cannot enforce this through the courts.

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I am having trouble trying to see what would be wrong.
The Application doesn't contain all the Prescribed Terms as required by CCA1974.

 

You could write to BC setting out your reasons for why they have failed to comply with your CCA request. You can also say the Application form will not stand up in court as an enforceable credit agreement as it does not contain the Prescribed Terms set out in CCA 1974.

 

You could therefore offer to make a Without Prejudice F&F Settlement to close the matter.

 

I doubt whether they'll entertain this just now, but no harm in trying.

 

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Here is an overview of the requirements of section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. For a credit agreement to be enforceable it must contain the following prescribed terms;

1) Amount of credit

There must be a term on the agreement which states the amount of credit which has been issued

2) Credit Limit

The agreement must include regarding a credit limit or if a credit limit is not required (i.e. in the case of a loan)

 

3) Repayments

The agreement must contain information on how the debtor is to make repayments. This could be in the form of any of the following points;

a. Amount of repayments to be made

b. Date the repayments are to be made

c. Timing of payments

d. Frequency of payments

e. Total number of repayments (For instance, when a loan is required)

f. The power of the creditor to vary any of the above mentioned

f. The manner in which any of the above is to be determined.

4) Rate of interest

There must be a term referring to the rate of interest to be applied to the credit agreement

Credit Cards;

If you have a credit card then sections 2, 3, and 4 apply to you.

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Thanks Rebel.

 

RGB this info is set out in detail in the Guide to Checking Credit Agreements in my signature as I have said before.

 

If you want to take on BC and show there is merit in the arguments you make, you will have to identify and be able to argue these points yourself, so you can put them effectively into writing.

 

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Hi RGB,

 

Another point that Rebel has reminded me of - at the end of the OFT Guidance publication that I linked for you on post #13 on page #1 of your thread, there's a Plain English guide which sets things out very clearly.

 

It may help with the points you want to make with BC.

 

8-)

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Hi Roy

 

As Slick says, you need to read up on the basics, the OFT is an excellent document, the Plain English guide is very straightforward.

 

I agree that Barclaycard are a power to themselves, but you need to concentrate on your account, deal with that, don't get side tracked.

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