Longroad V Marbles/Beneficial Finance/HFC

[longroad]

I have a previous thread but thought I shouldmaybe start one more specific to the whole topic rather than just the question I had about the agrement.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/204099-confused-agreement-not.html

 

I have looked further on the board tonight and now see there can be mistakes made with DNs. I have received a piece of paper in with this months statement titled DEFAULT SUM NOTICE. Is this a default notice. It talks about the £12 charge for non payment. It doesnt tell me to pay or to bring the account up to date, that is on the actual statement. Its all very confusing and im worried this is going to end up in court or with me getting a CCJ or whatever.

 

I am grateful for any advice anyone can give. I dont know what to do next and in the meantime I am getting charged for not paying and interest is being added every month.

[cerberusalert]

No it's not a DN as such. They are now required to notify you when the a/c goes into arrears. Before they can register it on your credit file they have to give you the opportunity to remedy, thats when they send the 'Default Notice' rather than a 'Default Sum Notice'.

[longroad]

OK thank you. They have already sent me letters about the account being in arrears but they havnt acknowledged the letter I sent about the full and final. Should I be sending them another letter or should I sit back and wait. I really dont want anything adverse on my credit file and didnt think it would get that far. I thought I just had to request the original agreement and then when they havnt sent it I thought it would be automatic from there and I could either not pay which I dont want to do or I could settle it. I guess I was niave.

[cerberusalert]

The problem with creditors & DCAs is in the majority of cases they will still mark your credit file even in the absence of an agreement. That's why if you negotiate a full & final payment you should include the provision that they cease processing your data & that they remove any adverse information from your credit file.

 

Have a read of; Knocked back by a DCA on a Sec 10 notice? - The Consumer Forums

[longroad]

Thank you for the links to the threads of which I have now read and also the information regarding DNs.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on my next move. I have sent a letter offering a full and final and requested a response in 14 days but I have heard nothing, not even an acknowledgement. I dont know what I should do next. They are still sending statements and still asking to be paid. I dont want to just ignore it as I do want to resolve it with a full and final but dont know which letter to send next.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.

[longroad]

Should I send a Subject Access Request or is it past that stage. Im just reading more and more and getting more and more confused.

[longroad]

Hi there. Im still receiving letters asking me to bring the account up to date and they are still adding interest on each month. I thought they couldnt do that. They are also still calling me although I am telling them the account is in dispute. They refused the offer of 10% of the balance as a full and final, do you think I should offer more? I dont know what to do next as it just doesnt seem to be getting sorted.

[cerberusalert]

They can ask you to bring your account up to date as much as they like but as they've already admitted in your original thread they cannot take any enforcement action. Just ignore them, they cannot do anything but ask.

[longroad]

Oh I see. I had hoped to have this resolved as it is unsettling to get letters asking for the money all the time. What about all the interest they are adding on? I thought they couldnt do this? In one of their letters they sent ages ago they said the below which is what I think you refer to.

 

'With reference to your concerns regarding your account; please be aware that the effect of unenforceability under the CCA and such unenforceability does not apply in this case, as it is to prevent a lender from enforcing the credit agreement in court; it does not render the credit agreement void.'

 

Does this not mean that I have sent an incorrect letter or asked for the wrong thing. I dont understand all the different laws etc and im not sure ive asked for the right thing in the very beginning or are they just trying to bluff me.

 

What do you think about offering a bit more as a full and final settlement?

 

Thanks again.

[longroad]

I have sent the below off to them this morning by recorded delivery.

---

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:– Beneficial Account – xxxxxxxxxxx

 

In June 2009 I wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. I have since sent further requests which extended to the full agreement which bore my signature.

 

I note that to date I have not received a copy of the agreement which I requested. In view of the circumstances I do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours therefore I would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature. I require the complete document with all its parts.

 

I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

 

 

Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested. I do not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to Durham County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which I have requested.

 

Additionally I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary.

 

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on 9 October 2009 that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing.

Yours sincerely

-------------

 

I have just had my post delivered and have received 2 letters from them today, both from exactly the same person in Card Collections, both dated the same day 3rd September 2009.

 

I havnt got a scanner so will retype them below. Any advice as to what I should do next is much appreciated.

 

----

Dear xxx

 

xBeneficial Finance Credit Card Number - xxxxxxx Arrears £600+

 

Please be aware of some of the possible consequences if you do not resume payments on your account;

 

-As we report to national credit reference agencies on the status of customer accounts, you may have difficulty int he future obtaining a mortgage or other credit.

 

- Any credit protection insurance that you have linked to this debt may be cancelled.

 

- If you do not respond to this letter, you will be served with a Default Notice in accordance with Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. THE COST OF THIS DEFAULT NOTICE IS £12.00 AND WILL BE ADDED TO YOUR BALANCE.

 

- If your account is passed to a collection agency, you may be liable for their costs also (these costs are higher when an agent visits your home).

 

- If legal action becomes necessary, many of the costs incured by us will be added to your balance.

 

We are not looking to make unreasonable demands of you. We seek from you an arrangement that you can afford and will maintain. This can be worked out by talking to one of our trained payment advisors on 08456029545.

 

Yours sincerely

blah blah

Card Collection

HFC Bank

 

-----------------

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Beneficial Finance Credit Card Number - xxxxxx

 

This letter is to advise you of our intention to file a notice that you have defaulted on your contractual obligations to make repayments under your credit agreement with us (a notice of default) with one or more Credit Reference Agencies in 65 days from the date of this letter.

 

The filing of such notice of default can be avoided by the payment of at least 50% of your contractual payment of £219 on or before your next scheduled repayment date of 27th September 2009 and regularly by the same due date (27th) monthly thereafter. Please note, that any failure to make your next, or any subsequent payments, on or before your scheduled due dates, whether you have advised us or not that payments may be late i.e. after your scheduled due date, will result in a notice of default being filed with one or more Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Please note that if you have an existing arrangement with HFC Bank Ltd to make lower or less frequent payments than detailed above, we WILL file a notice of default as above. However, if you are able to increase your payment to at least %50 of your minimum payment as shown on all future statements and pay on a monthly basis as detailed above we will not file a notice of default.

 

If you already have an arrangement with HFC Bank Ltd to make higher payments than 50% of your minimum payment as shown on all future statements, it is essential that you continue to make these higher payments on a monthly basis, to avoid a notice of default being filed in the future.

 

Credit Reference Agencies are organisations, licensed under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which hold information about individuals, which is of relevance to and is used by lenders in making credit decisions.

 

Having a notice of default registered at the Credit Reference Agencies may affect your ability to obtain credit in future.

 

Should you require any further clarification please contact 08456029545.

 

Yours sincerely

Blah Blah

Card Collections.

----------

[cerberusalert]

They are full of hot air they stated earlier

'With reference to your concerns regarding your account; please be aware that the effect of unenforceability under the CCA and such unenforceability does not apply in this case, as it is to prevent a lender from enforcing the credit agreement in court; it does not render the credit agreement void.'

They've admitted in that sentence that they cannot take any legal enforcement, all they can do is ask you nicely for payment. Yes the debt does still exist but it is legally unenforceable. It doesn't matter how many charges they add on or default notices they send it does not alter the situation.

[longroad]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I think im missing something as doesnt that quote mean that unenforceability doesnt apply in my case and only if if did apply could they not enforce the agreement.

 

Should I be sending off another letter or waiting for a reply to the one I sent them today?

 

Thanks again.

[cerberusalert]

It's the way they've worded it. They are acceding that it is unenforceable but are maintaining that the agreement isn't void, which it isn't.... it's unenforceable instead. All they can do is ask you to pay, they certainly can't take you to court.

[longroad]

Thanks again. I shant worry over their idle threats then. Easier said than done im sure though

 

I just wish they would accept a full and final. I think I will wait until I get a reply from the letter I sent them today and see what happens from there and then try again for a full and final as I really would like to pay and have this resolved rather than leave it as it is.

[longroad]

They have rang me now and before they asked me to confirm it was me I asked them to stop and told them they would need to put anything in writing to me. They told me that if I didnt pay there legal team would be in touch. Im still waiting for a reply to the last letter I sent them but they do have until mid October anyway.

[cerberusalert]

Their legal team will probably be the newly promoted tea-boy.

 

Without an enforceable CCA they're stuffed & can do diddly squat.

[longroad]

Well the deadline is up tomorrow for them to respond to my letter above dated 9 sep and im not sure what I need to do next. Is there another letter I should be sending if I dont hear from them by 4pm tomorrow or do I just do what I said and file something with the county court.

 

Ive had another statement and they have added on more interest and there is also a not on the statement saying the following.

 

Since your account remains overdue despite previous requests for payment, your credit facility is now suspended, and your card must not be used.

 

There has been another months interest added on and another late payment fee. There is also a Default Sum Notice enclosed and a sheet on Arrears from the OFT.

 

Any advice on what my next move should be is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

Longroad

[cerberusalert]

Can you scan the default notice, remove personal details & post it up? But leave all the dates showing.

[cerberusalert]

You don't need to send them anything else, they cannot take any enforcement action in the absence of an agreement. All you need to do is ignore them.

[longroad]

Thankyou. I cant scan anything as I dont have a working scanner but I can type it in exactly as it is.

 

 

2 OCTOBER 2009

Account Number xxxxxxxx

 

DEFAULT SUM NOTICE

 

This is a default sum notice given in compliance with the Consmer Credit Act 1974.

 

A "default sum" is any charge we make, excluding interest, as a result of a breach of the credit agreement by you. This would include, for example, charges for paying late or for exceeding the credit limit.

 

The amount and date of each default sum applied to your account is shown in the detailed transaction list above. (im assuming this means the statement which states 28 Sept LATE PAYMENT ADMIN CHARGE £12)

 

The total amount of all default sums included in this notice is £12.

 

This Notice does not take account of default sums which we have already told you about in another default sum notice, whether or not those sums remain unpaid.

 

DISPUTE RESOLUTION

 

If you have a problem with your agreement blah blah blah

 

Thank you again. Hope this helps.

[cerberusalert]

Just ignore it. Whilst an a/c is in dispute they cannot add charges anyway, they've already admitted they cannot enforce the agreement twice so there's no need in getting into a game of postal ping-pong with them.

 

If they do continue to pester you can make a complaint to Trading Standards via Consumer Direct Consumer Direct - Contact us

[longroad]

Hi again

 

I have now received a letter from Restons Solicitors with regards to the above. I havnt got a scanner but ill reproduce it exactly as it is.

 

Friday 09 October 2009

URGENT - FOR IMMEDIATE ACTION

 

HFC Bank Ltd v Yourself, ref xxxxxxxxx

Overdue Credit Card Balance £xxxxxxx

 

We are instructed by HFC Bank Ltd to claim immediate payment from you of the balance outstanding on your Overdue Credit card, as detailed below:-

 

DATE DESCRIPTION VALUE

--------------------------------------------------------------

09/10/2009 Default Balance £11195.57

09/10/2009 Collection Charge £ 1866.30

Post Refrl Cr NIL

TOTAL DUE £13061.87

 

Plus capitalised interest as appropriate.

 

You must not pay £13061.87 to this office by Monday, October 19, 2009 failing which a summons will be issued for the full balance PLUS any continuing interest, fees and costs. A judgement may be entered against you which will be registered. Your credit record will be affected making it difficult to obtain credit in future.

 

Our Client may be prepared to accept payment by installments. If you wish them to consider this please complete the enclised questionnaire and return it to this office within 6 days. Unless we hear from you we may decided to telephone you on any number available to us. Alternatively please telephone us on the above DIRECT line within 6 days. All future correspondence/payments should be sent to this office clearly marked with your name and account number. Receipts will not be given unless specifically requested.

 

Finally, our client has asked us to draw to your attention an opportunity for you to clear the account at a specially discounted settlement figure whoch could represent a substantial saving for you. If you are interested your should call the direct line listed as the head of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully

blah blah blah

 

 

 

I would like to think I could go with the settlement figure but I have no idea what it will be. I dont know if I should be sending of a letter to them saying the account is in dispute or asking for the settlement figure on the phone or by letter or what. Obviously my letter I sent asking for the agreement otherwise I would file something in court has been ignored and the time is up now anyway and they havnt replied to that letter at all. I just dont know what to do next. I cant have a judgement against me as I would lose my job.

[longroad]

Does anyone have any ideas on whether I should call the number as the letter states to get a settlement figure or should I be requesting this in writing. I would like to make my next move in the morning. Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Send this to Restons; http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/575-letter-to-solicitors-threatening-legal-action-in-default-of-agreement-request-

[cerberusalert]

They've admitted in your original thread that they cannot take enforcement action, Restons are urinating against the wind with this one. There isn't the remotest possibility of them obtaining a CCJ against you.