VT on an immobile car, with an ownership twist!

[Spurs4ever]

Hi guys,

 

Reading through the posts on here lead me to believe that this might be more of a headache than it should be, so before I embark on the slippry road that is Welcome Finance Voluntary Termination, I thought I would share my situation to see if someone out there can advise on the best course of action.

 

Anyway here goes...

 

My partner and her now ex husband, purchased a car through Welcome Finance from their Approved Car Finance dealership in Luton on the 23rd 1st 2007 on a 48 month agreement with the only addition to the contract being MBI which was for £600 and ran out in Jan this year.

 

I've split the rest of this up so it makes it easier to not only read, but also repsond to:

 

The Contract :-

 

My partner has all of the original paperwork. The contract is in both my partners name and her ex husbands name.

 

Q1) does this mean that if there are any monies owed on the car that they will see it as a marrital asset and therefore both parties are equally liable for 50% of all debt arising from it? Or as the car's logbook is now in the name of my partner, she will be liable for all costs?

Payments :-

 

Payments have been on time and without arrears until 2 days ago when my partner decided to stop the DD after the engine siezed up last weekend. Since 23/01/2007 some £9088.20 has been paid on it (excluding £1 px on her old car) which means that she is well over the 50% threashold on the total payable under the contract of £14,642.12

 

Q2) Can I assume that my partner will only be liable for costs over and above this figure as she has surpassed the 50% threashold needed to be able to VT.

The Car :-

 

The car has never been serviced, never been checked other that at MOT's and after failing to spot an oil leak last weekend, the engine packed up on the M2. I am trying to get her to get an independant mechanic to check the car over with a view of at least getting a quote, and in addition to this getting a written quote so that WF dont try and stitch us up.

 

Q3) Can they use anyone to repair the car, and if so, if the fees are deemed as extortionate compared to our independant quote, can we appeal against the monies requested from us by WF for the repairs?

The situation :-

 

My partner is regisatered disabled, I do not drive. I care for her full time, therefore I dont have an income (apart from carers allowance which is, well laughable, but that's for another conversation). We cannot afford to repair this car whilst still paying the monthly payments to WF. A mechanic mate of mine over the phone told me that there is a good chance it will need a new engine at a cost of £1500 +, something we simply cannot afford. We are aware that WF can and will charge us the repair costs, this is not a problem (we can pay £5 a month if necessary) we just want the car gone (apart from the damage, it is the last link to her ex she has). My partner is already looking at secondhand motors in the Auto Trader.

 

She had a phone call today from a mobile number (this guy called a few months ago so we know he was from WF) asking for payment or court action etc etc. My partner told him the situation and he suggested that she self terminates the agreement, which she agreed to.

 

Q4) Am I right in thinking that this guy may terminate the contract his end therefore meaning that we are liable for all the monies owed under the terms of the agreement? Shall I get a letter of Voluntary Termination out in the post ASAP to stop this from happening?

 

Well thats about it really, sorry to go on, but apart from this forum I have no idea where to go for advice.

 

Thanks in advance all those who can help.

 

Regards

Simon

Edited October 20, 2009 by Spurs4ever

[The wife]

hi spurs4ever,

 

I can't offer you much help on what seems very complicated, the only thing i can say for sure is that as the account is in both names both people are responsible for the payments, but as most DCA's look for one member of the old partnership they will take it all from the person they find first.

as for being taken to court over one late payment that is 2 days late..the bloke from welcome is a grade A muppet and trying to scare your partner into payment.

 

there are many other members on here who can advise you fully about VT'ing the car, with patience they will find your thread and reply with far more comprehensive help/advice.

[Spurs4ever]

Thanks The Wife,

 

Very complicated it is too. Had a quote from a national engine repairer for £675 + VAT plus fitting for a recon engine.

 

Anyway...

 

I can't offer you much help on what seems very complicated, the only thing i can say for sure is that as the account is in both names both people are responsible for the payments, but as most DCA's look for one member of the old partnership they will take it all from the person they find first.

 

What happens if the first person they find cannot afford to pay it back, will they go to the second person, or can you, as the first person, force the second person to pay half, as it was both names on the agreement?

 

as for being taken to court over one late payment that is 2 days late..the bloke from welcome is a grade A muppet and trying to scare your partner into payment.

 

Thats nothing compared to some of the tatics I have read on MoneySavingExpert today! Still a good punch in the gob will sort out most of them LOL

 

Thanks again

Simon

[The wife]

they tend to chase the easiest person, and whilst the other person is on that agreement they are still liable but why chase the other person?

you can not force the other person to pay but they can!

 

you could always try to be reasonable with the ex...get him to pay the repairs and you partner pays the finance? that way he gets off reasonably lightly well its reasonably if you don't take the labour involved. just a thought

[Spurs4ever]

you could always try to be reasonable with the ex...get him to pay the repairs and you partner pays the finance? that way he gets off reasonably lightly well its reasonably if you don't take the labour involved. just a thought

 

No go I am afraid. He is the lowest of the low, and does not even want to talk to his kids (they have 5 of them) let alone pay anything towards the costs of the car. If there is a lot to pay on the repair then, seeing as he is on the agreement, its only right that he has to pay 50% of it, something we will press for as soon as the DCA get involved (if they do)

[The wife]

Hi Simon

I have an ex like that....

 

I guess you have two choices:

 

1. stop paying welcome or offer them half the payments

2. VT the car but as the engine has seized I doubt they will accept it. (thats where you need more advice)

 

the big don't is don't allow you partner to go into the office or sign an new contract at all by post or in any other way, it will cancel out the old agreement, and if the ex doesn't have to sign it, it will mean you partner is fully liable for the new (rewritten agreement).

 

just run the MBI by me again, how is it that it ran out in january? do you have a copy of the insurance policy or even the agreement..ok if you have any paperwork pertaining to the car finance, insurance etc can you scan them up and post them on here via photobucket please?

 

Corrinne

[Spurs4ever]

Hi Corrinne,

 

Thanks for the info, its all apprecited.

 

The MBI is a Mechanical Breakdown Insurance which was for £600 but only valid for the first 24 months of the agreement. Unfortunately, the engine siezed up 32 months in so the MBI would not cover the repair.

 

An additional amount as I have just noticed from looking at the contract again is a £100 option fee (which incurs interest), with no indication what this option fee is for.

 

As for the possibility of my partner signing a new agreement etc, you have no worries on that score, shes a sensible lass (not withstanding the option to go with Welcome in the first place).

 

As for the documents you want scanned, tell me exactly what you are after and I'll get on the case.

 

Thanks again

Simon

[The wife]

Hi Simon,

 

the option fee is basically the fee you pay to purchase the vehicle at the end of the HP agreement..if you don't pay it in theory you can't keep the car, but from what I have read on here they have front loaded this fee and you are no doubt paying the interest on this 'fee', which by my understanding is a no no.

 

scan the credit agreement, the pre contract info, the insurance policies (if you have them), is there PPI on the car? if so any documentation relating to that. make sure all personal details are removed, account numbers car reg and VIN number. you never know but there could be some glaring mistake on it that will invalidate the agreement so you should be able to return the car or get it repaired and have to pay nothing more.

 

fingers crossed, but the agreements are not my forte, I just waffle along randomly with snippets that I know about and wait for corrections if I am wrong.

 

C

[Spurs4ever]

Was just scanning in the documents when I asked my partner why she had two copies of the agreement (one signed and the other not). She said that the guy in WF said that there was a problem with the first agreement and that he could not sign it. So he wrote out the second one and got them to sign it.

 

As my partner only has the second page of the second agreement I need to get the info from WF as to what is going on with the account. I am going to ask for the original agreement and a statement of the account.

 

What do I need to ask for, just the SAR or CCA too? Do I sned themto the same address?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Simon

[T2upNorth]

Was just scanning in the documents when I asked my partner why she had two copies of the agreement (one signed and the other not). She said that the guy in WF said that there was a problem with the first agreement and that he could not sign it. So he wrote out the second one and got them to sign it.

 

As my partner only has the second page of the second agreement I need to get the info from WF as to what is going on with the account. I am going to ask for the original agreement and a statement of the account.

 

What do I need to ask for, just the SAR or CCA too? Do I sned themto the same address?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Simon

 

 

A CCA request is quicker, 12+2 days to comply. A SAR will be more revealing but allows 40 days. CCA costs £1, SAR costs £10. If you ask for a statement they will probably want to charge £10 for it, even though (I believe) you are entitled to a statement at least annually.

 

Either way, send via recorded delivery, using a crossed postal order, do not sign, just print your name and keep the receipts. Don't bother phoning, you may as well bang your head on a brick wall...

 

All correspondence should be sent to:

 

Welcome Financial Services Compliance

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

Remember they key points: no phone contact, no signatures, letter from your partners name, PO, recorded delivery! Cover all the bases or WF will find a way to wriggle out or get creative.

T2

[The wife]

i have an issue with recorde3d delivery as they "lost" mine even though i now know they were received, if you want to pay out the extra for postage do it special delivery

[Spurs4ever]

Thanks for the info guys,

 

I will send both CCA and SAR out at the same time I think, different envelopes of course. I have seen the templates for CCA and SAR on here and will use them with a little amendment for my needs.

 

AM I right in thinking that on the CCA my account will be in dispute until I get the paperwork? Is this the same for the SAR?

 

Just trying to get the legalities of it in my head before I embark on the WF fun fair

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Simon

[The wife]

Hi Simon,

 

you can only put the account into dispute once the CCA has been sent and you have not received the true original copy after the 12+2 days have gone by.(14 days from postage some say, I did 14 days from delivery using special delivery)

 

the SAR can not be put into dispute.

 

the DMP that me and my OH use said that a scanned or printed copy is NOT a true copy, it must be one of the sheets that were attached to the agreement at the time the loan was taken out. however I have yet to be told if this is correct or not on here.

 

C.

[Spurs4ever]

Hi Corrine,

 

So just to clarify, what do I need to send first, the SAR or the CCA, or can I send for both at the same time?

 

Regards

Simon

[The wife]

Hi Simon,

 

sorry for the delay, you can send them both in the same envelope as long as you put the postal orders for both in there, I wrote on the back of each postal order what it was for i.e SAR request Mr Joe Bloggs and CCA request Mr Joe Bloggs so they knew what they were for should the postal order fall out randomly in the post room. Saves postage thats how I justify using special delivery now .

 

Regards

C

[steven4064]

Just one point on joint agreements (your partner and ex) - a joint agreement has joint and several responsibility. THat means that Welcome may pursue either or both to recover any debt. If one can't pay or goes bankrupt, they can and will pursue the other for the whole debt.

[Spurs4ever]

Just a small update on this.

 

A self employed repossession agent working on behalf of WF collected the car on Sat 17th October. Funnily enough he only told me he didn't need a signature or would be leaving any paperwork until he was back in the cab of his truck and ready to pull away.....

 

Like a good citizen I managed to get his name earlier in the conversation and also made a note of his truck registration number in case of a need to involve the authorities at a later date

 

The log book was taken although he advised that he could not sign it as he was not liable for the car....blah blah blah. (I have a copy of this to prove any tampering if necessary!)

 

Anyway, I spoke to someone at Welcome Finance VT this morning who advised me that the details were on their system for it to be picked up and that that information was enough to prove that we did not have the car (WTF was this wally on about? LOL). After a bit of probing I got the name, address and phone number(s) of the agency who the lift was assigned to, although the muppet at WF was certain that there would be no comeback. (Hope for his sake that it does not come back and bite him on the bum!)

 

He did go on to advise me that it would be taken to auction soon and that the new owner would not be registered until this happened. Of course this is not going to wash with the DVLA, and yes I know its my own fault for letting this happen, but now I am chasing up the agency to get hold of confirmation that we no longer have the car in case of an issue down the line.

 

Any advice on this apart from calling me all the names under the sun

 

Oh and just to clarify, I have not sent for any paperwork from WF as per my above posts yet, although I will be doing all of that this week now.

 

Regards

Simon

Edited October 19, 2009 by Spurs4ever

[Spurs4ever]

Just called the agency who collected that car. Interestingly enough the same guy who collected the car on Saturday was the same guy who picked up the phone, although this time he called himself a different name.....not impressed with this....he went on to tell me that he had not spoken to the agent who collected the car (himself) and he did not know what pound the car was at....and that I did not need to know this information.

 

He said WF would be able to confirm collection of car, WF tell me that the agency who collected it will be able to confirm. The guy from the agency took my email address and told me he would email me with confirmation of the collection after I put a little pressure on him, however I doubt I will recieve anything.

 

Looks like I might be in for a bit of a ride here, although I am happy to call the fuzz to get it looked into if necessary.

 

Regards

Simon

[Spurs4ever]

Me again,

 

Just to add to this my partner has paid more than the required amount to mean that WF would have needed a court order to repossess the car. I was shown no court order, and after speaking to the guy who collected the car, there was no court order.

 

In fact there was no letter or correspondence of any kind to tell us that they were going to collect the car other than the request I made to the VT Team on the 24th September 2009 and the subsequent knock on the door by the agent on the day of collection (17/10/09). There was also no DN sent although Welcome claim they have sent it.

 

Am I right in thinking that not only are they in breach of something or other for not contacting us, they are also in breach of their own T's & C's and we can therefore claim back all monies paid to them for the duration of the agreement.....or am i confusing myself here?

 

Regards

Simon

Edited October 19, 2009 by Spurs4ever

[postggj]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/repossessions/150726-car-repossession-welcome.html

 

its your lucky day

 

give a buzz when you have gone over the above thread

[Spurs4ever]

Thanks postggj

 

I have read with interest, and have to say that apart from the fact that Welcome have the log book, my case is exactly the same as caz_1976.

 

Is the first port of call to get a SAR to see where the account is currently and what paperwork WF do actually have ?

 

Regards

Simon

Edited October 20, 2009 by Spurs4ever

[postggj]

Yes

 

Get That Sar Sent In

 

Ive Done One Just For Welcome

 

Ill Post It Up

[postggj]

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not linited merely to 6 years of historical information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

I require all information on details of all insurance products supplied by welcome financial services. This is to include the statement of means, statement of price, details of all insurance premium tax paid, and underwriting sheets.

If mortage indemnity insurance has been added to the agreement, i require all details on who this premium was paid to, and who underwrites this insurance.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them.

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

[Spurs4ever]

Postggj

 

Thanks for that will get it in the post first thing tomorrow.

 

Regards

Simon

[postggj]

Send By Recorded To

 

Welcome Financial Services

Compliance

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

Ng11 6nz