Debt Litigation and Recovery Services offer money off, why?

[count orlok]

About 5 years ago I got a PC from PC World using their inhouse finace from HFC. I got into strife and missed the last few payments. I wrote to them axplaining my situation, offered reduced payments, and set up a standing order to pay at the reduced rate. later I sent them a request for my CCA. This is what they sent: http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/loadsindebt/HFCagreement.jpg it clearly states at the bottom of the document it is page 1 of 4, therefore as the CCA '74 clearly states they should supply a copy of the agreement and all documents refered to in it, would it not be unreasonable to conclude they have not complied with my request?

 

Last month they reversed the payment and set DLRS on to me. They offer me a 50% settlement but as this was still more than i owed when i got into trouble i said i could not afford it and wanted to carry on paying what i already was.

 

Next i get a letter from DLRS asking for all the money as I had not made last months payment (the one they returned), threatening further action if i do no phone them. I wrote back to them and explained that i had paid, but they had returned the payment, I also explained i was unable to phone them.

 

Now I have received another letter from them offering another rudued payment (although this one only offers %40 off), again asking for me to phone them to find out how much discount I can get off.

 

How does the agreement stand up and as they have not supplied me with all the documents refered to within it, have they complied with my request? They state that if they do not hear from me they will (not may) take court proceedings against me. This will (not may or if they win) add costs to the debt and unless settles in full will (again not may or if the judgement goes against you) result in a CCJ being registed against me. Eventually they stop stating will, explaining that the judgment may be inforced, by attachment to earnings (the OC knows I am retired), a charging order on my home (don't think the housing association will allow that), and a bailiff to visist my home to seize goods (they wish).

 

The letter is headed "WITHOUT PREGUDICE" so I guess they know it breaks loads of rules, and they think by writiting that at the top they are above the law.

 

Why are they offering me such a big discount?

[harrassed senior]

Because they know full well that the Agreement is unenforceable:)

[count orlok]

Because they know full well that the Agreement is unenforceable:)

 

Thats good, I've more than paid off any alleged loan if that is the case. What would be the best way to handle this, is it worth wile stopping payments as it would seem that not only is the agreement unenforceable, they have not met their obligation under CCA '74?

 

How is the agreement unenforceable?

Edited August 5, 2009 by count orlok
spelling

[count orlok]

I am going to answer their letter but i need to know how to word it. I will of course reiterate the facts in my reply to their offer of a 50% reduction, stateing that if I could not afford to pay back 50% I am hardly going to be in a position to pay of 60%. How should I approach the section 77 breach, I have been asking them to complete the request but they totaly ignore that part. Also should I put them to task over the agreement yet or save that bit till lator?

[veryweary]

DLRS are just a pretend name used by HFC when they want to pressurise you, as admitted to me by one of their advisors. Sounds like HFC have been merrily adding loads of extra interest to your account while you've been making reduced statements. Therefore you're are entitled to see the full terms and conditions that go with this agreement to see what clause entitled them to add them. For that reason I think they remain in default of your CCA request.

 

If they haven't been sending you regular statements showing how all these figures have accumulated you can also complain to the OFT. When I got to grips with HFC over a similiar situation I discovered that for 18 months while I was paying a reduced £5 per month they were cheerfully adding a £15 late payment fee each month that I had no knowledge of.

[count orlok]

Cheers, I suspected they where a made up company. I have statements and they show stacks of added charges since I started making reduced payments. Can anyone coment on the enforcability of the agreement linked to at the start of this post?

 

Cheers

[count orlok]

I have composed a reply to their letter, In it I have stated I cannot phone them and am unable to pay off the debt even with 40% off, pointing out if I could not pay off the 50% offered before I would not be able to pay 60% now. I also reminded them of their obligations under the '74 CCA. Telling them they should be fully aware of the rules governing debts and pointing out they where in breach of OFT guidlines. I haven't said anything about the enforcability or otherwise of the agreement they sent me. That may be usefull later on.

[count orlok]

They have answered my last letter by thanking me for making reduced payments, but say the full amount is now due (a figure that is more than double what i owed them last year). They say should I be unable to this I should complete the enclosed financial statement and send them proof by way of payslips benefit award notices etc. They won't be getting that, and i will be telling them this. Have they terminated the account by asking for the full amount, because if they have they never sent me a default notice or even completed my CCA '74 request?

[veryweary]

If HFC haven't been sending you regular statements to show what;s been happening on your account then they shouldn't be trying to enforce it according to s107 of CCA Act as far as I know. How are you supposed to know if you owe them anything otherwise.

 

HFC are crap with their paperwork, and it takes their complaints department months to tell you zero . I;d consider making an official complaint to HFC about them not complying with your CCA request. Starts building your paperwork trailin case of a future court case.

 

I don't have enough knowledge, but I seem to remember reading it's incorrect for them to lump the insurance and service into the total amount of credit, as it's technically seperate multiple agreements Someone more knowledgable could advise you better on that subject.

 

But this will bump you up the queue:)

[count orlok]

On rereading their last letter (to which I am at present drafting a reply) I notice further examples of their ineptitude and general lack of competence. While the first 4 paragraphs are left justified, the final 2 (which each consist of one simple sentence) are centre justified!

 

How is one supposed to take seriously someone who cannot even draft a simple letter. I find it insulting these people send out letters like this, especially when there are so many people out there who could do a proper job, that said who would want to work for these people?

[count orlok]

Letter done. Reminded them about the Consumer Credit Act and OFT guidelines. Added that i was surprised a "bank" did not know the rules and regs governing their business. Told them that they have already had all the financial info they where going to get, and if they wanted money paid out on a pro-rata basis they would be on for an awful lot less than the amount they are now getting. Also added that to treat letter as an official compliant.

[veryweary]

My situation is bit different because they can't find any agreement for me. but I paid for a number of years not realising they were adding more in charges in each month than I paid off..

 

Put account into dispute when they failed to comply with CCA request, stopped paying and made an official complaint. They continued adding charges, then a default with further charge for issuing it (when the CCA act clearly states they can't do this) , then set DLRS on me. Thats when I discovered DlRS sit next to HFC and the cretins on the phone can't update records ,just take payments. Only their 'letter writing' department can deal with correspondence. Time it takes them to reply there must just be I employee in that dept:-D.In the meantime received various letters, all with totally different outstanding figures they said I owed. Complete shambles.

 

Further complaint illustrating all their breaches of regulations resulted in a letter to say they had removed the charges as goodwill gesture. And although they couldn't find agreement they still wanted payment.

 

After all this, As if..................

 

You should be able to put account into dispute if you disagree with the outstanding balance. And keep it in dispute until you get the terms you agreed to at the time which detail charges etc and how under the terms they were allowed to add them.They also need to give you a full statement of account for the past few years to let you see what they've been up to.

 

You need someone with knowledge to look over your agreement, maybe a PM to one of more experienced members to have a look at your thread.

 

The direct address for complaints I used is HFC Bank,Central Complaints, PO Box 3607, Birmingham B1 2XJ. If its' not sent by recorded delivery they deny receiving it. Even then they'll still try to deny but can't when we've got proof of their receipt.

 

HFC can be very tricky but eventually you can wear them down:).

[count orlok]

Out of the blue i got a registered letter from HFC, it contained another copy of the first page of my agreement, still no sign of any other document referred to in it, in that i still only have page 1 of 4. I have read through what they have sent me and there is no mention of the charges that have been added to what they say I owe. There is a statement of account that shows all payments made, this shows that of the 900 borrowed plus 400 charge for credit, I have paid back 1200 and all i have to pay them is 210 for the 100 arreas to be settled.

 

Now I've always though I had a good grasp of maths, and while I must admit that 900 for a PC plus 400 interest does come to 1300, I fail to see how 900 plus 400 minus 1200 equals 210?

[count orlok]

On second thoughts this may have been in response to my official complaint to DLRS. This does not satisfy the complaint as what they have sent me is exactly the same as what I complained about. I guess I'll have to see what else they write in response.

[Bazooka Boo]

Once you have exhausted their complaints procedure, as they are quite inept at dealing with complaints satisfactorily, you should also, if you haven't done so already, complaint to the OFT The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

And Financial Ombudsman Service

[count orlok]

Just got another copy of the first page from HFC, again no doubt in response to a letter I wrote to DLRS. the page they sent me makes no mention of any charges etc for late payment or anything else that would explain why they are claiming over double what it says on the agreement they sent.

[veryweary]

You can phone the FOS and explain to their advisors that HFC are giving you the run around on how they have calculated your outstanding amount, and are ignoring your complaint made in Sept and refusing to supply the inormation you need. If they think your complaint is valid they'll send you a form with the details you've given over the phone prefilled for you to sign and return with copies of the letters you've sent HFC.

 

When the FOS then make contact HFC, I think HFC will respond with an explantion of how they've calulated this pretty sharply, as it will cost them more than double what you owe if the FOS get involved on your behalf.

[count orlok]

After a what seems like an eternity I have just got a letter from DLRS. They have responded to my request for pages 2 to 4 of my agreement with PC World by sending me pages 2 to 5 of a PC World marbles card agreement!

 

They sent me a breakdown of charges and payments, but it don't add up. According to the paperwork they sent me, when i got into trouble in June 2008 I owed £110, by Oct 2008 when the agreement was due to end I was in arrears of £110. From Nov 2008 I was making token payments of £1 a month. The statement just shows that around that time they made a "formal demand" for the total owed, plus the arrears and then some. The account has not been defaulted, and the balance is reducing but they say i still owe more than i did when i started getting into trouble!

 

Not quite sure if these people know what they are doing.

 

But thinking about it, even if they do not add any more charges it will take nearly ten years to pay off, and while i am making reduced payments it will always show as red on my Credit file, maybe it would be better to stop, they default me and it goes away after six years?

Edited March 10, 2010 by count orlok

[count orlok]

Same letter again from DLRS, makes 3 for this letter, so i have already replied to it twice before and nothing has changed. What make you thnk it is a template threat-o-gram?

 

I just noticed the address has changed from birmingham for the first 2 to coventry, and there registed office has changed from slough to birmingham. perhaps the slough office in birmingham does not know what the birmingham office in coventry is doing and this explains whey they have again sent the same letter.

Edited March 10, 2010 by count orlok

[count orlok]

Just noticed in relation to my request for pages 2 to 4 of my credit agreement for the HFC loan, they have sent me pages 2 to 5 of a PC World Marbles credit card. Should i tell them, or keep this little gem for court should they go that far?

[count orlok]

Just got another copy of the same letter!

[count orlok]

They now inform me that they are not prepared to accept the token payments as being given to other creditors to whom I owe much more. They will only accept a reduced payment that is still more than I owed them before they started adding charges, and even then they will still trash my credit file!

 

To add insult to injury the item that was the subject of this agreement is now defunct.

[count orlok]

Moorcroft got this one; after a few of their self reading letters they have sent me the same page 1 of 4 and returned the account to HFC.

[Bazooka Boo]

I can't believe how long these complete eejits have been banging their heads against the wall over this! Although it really shouldn't surprise me anymore, I received a letter today from CSL stating in BOLD;

PLEASE DO NOT SIMPLY WRITE AS OUR TIME LIMITS ARE VERY STRICT

They are quite correct, I won't write........EVER.

 

So who's got it now?

It always hots up just before crimbo, they need to finance their school parties somehow, although you would have thought their parents might have made them some party sandwhiches and jelly to take in?