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hadyanth

Overseas fraud claim (HSBC)

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Hi all,

 

I have been locking horns with HSBC over a dodgy ATM transaction, details are as follows:

 

I went on holiday to the Dominican Republic (Punta Cana) in June 2009. I used a cash point in a shopping complex near the resort to try and withdraw 10,000 pesos (£175) with my HSBC(plus account) debit card and the ATM failed to dispense any money , I heard the machine make a whirring sound like it was counting money inside as you would normally hear before the money pops out.

 

The ATM appeared official as it was attached to the front of a proper bank (I say 'proper' because there are some questionable looking banks in Dominican Republic)

 

I tried a second card (my wife's card - joint account) for 2000 pesos (I needed 12,000 pesos in total) and it worked fine, I was satisfied at the time that the previous failure was just a glitch, but didn't want to push my luck with this ATM.

 

When I arrived back in London I checked my account and I saw that the 10,000 pesos had been deducted from my account as an ATM transaction.

 

I logged a complaint with HSBC and they launched an investigation - telling me my money would be refunded within 5 working days. Sure enough the money was refunded back to me. A couple of weeks later my wife pointed out that HSBC had taken back the money as we received a letter to this effect.

 

I queried this with the bank and they said that they contacted the bank and the money WAS taken out.

 

I ranted and got nowhere.

 

 

I don't know if this is linked but - a month later, I had a call from HSBC's fraud department telling me that they blocked a debit transaction (from my HSBC debit card) for £630 to a business in New York (USA) and asked if this was me, I told them no and they stopped my card and are issuing a new one.

 

 

The next day I checked my HSBC account online and there was a transaction for £642.18 to 'GCA Las Vegas' (from my wife's HSBC debit card) and I have logged a complaint about this too and they gave me the same schpiel as before that they will investigate and I will get my money back in 5 working days. It begs belief how they managed to stop one transaction in the USA as confirmed fraud and the very next day allow through another transaction in the USA for the SAME BLOODY AMOUNT!

 

I have a strong gut feeling that these events are linked and my card was somehow cloned and was abused in America. The ATM i used before was the only place I have used both cards at once and the fact there was one fraudulent transaction on my card and one on my wife's card - leads me to believe that they were cloned in that ATM...

 

 

I want to write a letter but I am so enraged I don't think it would be very well written :-|

 

 

What options do I have in this situation?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks.

 

P.S. Apologies to the moderators if this thread is in the wrong section please relocate as you see fit.


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Thread moved to HSBC Forum.


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Thanks maroondevo, I knew I stuck it in the wrong place :p


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Hiya hadyanth long time no see :) hope your well.

 

I think you pretty much nailed the letter to HSBC fraud department with your first post, clean it up a little and take out any emotion :rolleyes:, add in any dates and exact locations/times etc and send it off to them.

 

I think at this stage you should refer to all three incidents because they all have a baring on what has happened to your card details.

 

Unfortunately if the bank in the DR insists it paid the money out, you cant prove them wrong but it looks like they are the source of your problems.

 

pete

  • Haha 1

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Hey castlebest, long time indeed. Long ago were the days of me sobbing uncontrollably into my court bundle the night before the court date! :D

 

Anyway I didn't realise my rambling would turn out to be good material for a letter. I'll do as you say and clean it up and repost it here for your critique.

 

There has been an interesting development though.

 

We travelled to DR with my friend and his wife, they used the same cashpoint as me. When I spoke to them about what happened to me they checked their accounts that very same night... lo and behold... £2000 had been spent in GCA Las vegas last night... :!:

 

I no longer believe this to be a coincidence.

 

I'm going on trip advisor to post a warning about this to other travellers. If I can stop this from happening to just one person it will be worth it.

 

 

Lastly, this situation has screwed me over because I have my first monthly payment to DFS due tomorrow and there is no money left in my account thanks to this fraud. I have been warned not to miss a payment to DFS or pay late because they add the interest on the price immediately (I'm currently on an interest free term).

 

Can anyone substantiate this information about DFS?

 

Cheers all.


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Ok this letter is a bit long, I quickly drafted it up so I've still got to check it.

 

Thanks for any input on it. :)

 

 

 

================================================

To whom it may concern,

 

I am writing to express my frustration with HSBC in how they have handled the case of failed ATM transactions and fraud investigation on my account.

 

Below I will describe the two situations that led up to the writing of this letter.

 

SECTION 1) FAILED ATM TRANSACTION

 

On the 17th June 2009 I travelled on holiday to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic with my wife.

 

On the 22nd June 2009 we used a cash point in a shopping complex near the resort to try and withdraw 10,000DOP (£175.36) with my HSBC plus debit card and the ATM failed to dispense any money. The machine made a whirring sound as you would normally hear before the ATM ejects the money, however nothing happened.

 

I tried using my wife’s HSBC Plus debit card for 2000 pesos (we required 12,000DOP in total) and the transaction was successful. I was satisfied at the time that the previous failure was just a glitch / or the machine was low on currency (common in Dominican Republic), however I did not want to risk another large withdrawal from this machine.

 

The ATM appeared official as it was attached to the front of OFICINA UVERO ALTO bank and showed no signs of tampering (which I normally check for).

 

 

When I arrived back in London I checked my HSBC account and I saw that the 10,000 pesos had been deducted from my account as an ATM transaction as follows:

 

22 June 2009

CASH 0075621712

OFICINA UVERO ALTO

BAVARO,R.D.

DOP 10,000.00

 

I logged a complaint with HSBC and they launched an investigation – advising me this money would be refunded within 5 working days. Sure enough the money was refunded back to me. On the 21st July 2009 my wife informed me that HSBC had taken back the money as we had received a letter to this effect.

 

I queried this with HSBC who claimed that they contacted the Dominican bank and claims the money was taken out. I believe this cash point was compromised and I have been a victim of fraud as I did not receive 10,000DOP.

 

When I spoke to HSBC customer service to appeal against this, I explained this in full detail and I was treated with utter disrespect by the agent as I was interrupted, condescended and told (I quote),

 

“If it is a choice between your word and the word of a bank then HSBC will accept the bank as truthful over you”.

 

As rude as this statement is, it does unfortunately reflect the general level of customer service I have experienced from HSBC in this case.

 

As you will understand by reading further, that section 1 and section 2 of this letter are (in my view) undeniably linked. I have sought advice regarding this matter and can assure HSBC that if my appeal is not reviewed, I will take further steps to resolve this matter.

 

 

SECTION 2) FRAUDULENT DEBIT CARD TRANSACTIONS

 

On the morning of Tuesday 4th August 2009, I received a call from the HSBC Fraud Department informing me that a debit transaction (from my HSBC Plus debit card) for approximately £630 to a business in New York (USA) was blocked. I was questioned to whether I knew anything about this transaction; I told the agent I was not aware of any transaction of this type. The agent stopped my current card and has issued a new one which was delivered to me within 2 days.

 

On the 5th August 2009 I checked my HSBC account online and deducted from my account was the following transaction:

 

INT'L 0030316189

GCA* WYNN LAS VEGA

LAS VEGAS

USD 1,055.00

@ 1.6385

 

 

This time it was taken from my wife’s HSBC Plus debit card - and I logged a complaint about this and I received the same response as before that the issue will be investigated and I will receive my money back in 5 working days. Somehow the criminal involved managed to clone both mine and my wife’s debit cards.

 

It’s astonishingly incompetent of HSBC to manage to intercept one fraudulent transaction from the USA as confirmed fraud and the very next day allow another transaction from the USA for a virtually identical value to leave my account. This in my view is unacceptable behaviour for a multi-national banking organisation and clearly shows that my cases were not handled professionally.

 

As a matter of point, a married couple (friends) who we travelled to Dominican Republic with - used the very same ATM machine and on the 5th August 2009 - have been hit by fraud to the value of £2000 to GCA* WYNN LAS VEGAS. Additionally the ATM described in section 1 was the only place I have ever used both my debit card and my wife’s card in the same machine at the same time.

 

I do not believe in coincidences and this demonstrates that the ATM was compromised / tampered with and sets the basis for my appeal against HSBC not refunding me the failed ATM transaction (£175.36) detailed in section 1 of this letter.

 

In closing, I have always had good customer service from HSBC, which makes the nature of this situation all the more disappointing. As you already know, I signed up for a HSBC Plus joint account for which I pay £12.50 per month, part of the service included with this is account protection from this exact type of situation. HSBC have not acted in the best interests of me and my wife as customers and have failed to provide the service I pay for.

 

I can assure HSBC that I will not desist in pursuing this case and will exercise every action I am legally entitled to.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

*Hadyanth*

Edited by hadyanth

Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Sorry for the cheeky bump but I would really appreciate anyone's thoughts on this letter.

 

In case it helps anyone with the same problem, I've got the contact details to use in this type of situation:

 

Customer Care

 

email: servicequality@hsbc.com

 

Postal:

HSBC Bank Plc

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds LS11 0PP

 

Fraud Department

 

HSBC Bank Plc

Coventry District Service Centre

Harry Wreston Road

Binley, Coventry

CV3 2TQ

 

Cheers :)


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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That looks fine Haddy :) and they can check all of the transactions, even your friends after they used the same ATM so I think you have blown their “If it is a choice between your word and the word of a bank then HSBC will accept the bank as truthful over you” statement out of the water.

 

the DR is a very poor country and you have to be very careful there, I think the bank itself is probably sound but it only takes one employee :rolleyes:.

 

I know on one trip while I was there the taxi driver took out a hand gun and had it on the seat next to him because of "bandits" but when your in the back of a taxi on dark country roads you do wonder who is the bandit :cool: fortunately I had a good man :).

 

pete

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Handgun?! :eek:, can't say I had that type of experience but it was fun though. In no way does this situation take away the fact that DR is a gorgeous country (providing you leave the resort and explore)!

 

Anyway I've sent the letter and emailed a copy to the 'servicequality' team. I got a reply from the email asking for more details as they couldn't find me apparently :rolleyes:.

 

I think I'll push for a refund of my 12.95 a month and/or get my monthly account fee paid for by hsbc for the next year (the least they could do). As well as my £175 back!

 

We'll see what happens.


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Hi all,

 

Sorry about the loooong time since replying.

 

I had a call back from HSBC complaints resolution department. Spoke to a relatively pleasant chap who has obviously been employed as he believes he has an answer for everything. It was a frustrating phone call (I maintained composure) and I cant recall everything word for word, but he basically said that he cannot see where the bank was at fault.

 

Apparently the fraudulent transactions from Las Vegas and New York are one and the same... :confused:

 

The visa system cannot block a transaction once it has obtained an authorisation code. So the fraud team spotted the transaction before it left my account and although I denied knowledge of the transaction - it still went through the system and HSBC were 'powerless' to stop it. Aww bless their cottons, they did try... :roll:

 

 

This is rubbish as the only reason I can think of HSBC saying this is that they do not want to foot the bill and then have to fight for the money. They have a system that allows customer's account be debited - then 'assist' the customer in retrieving the money back. So this shows that all the bank does is apply for the money back from visa (or whoever) - who in turn has to investigate the matter. This led to one question I asked the guy:

 

"Why am I paying £12.50 a month for account protection (against ID theft) if you cannot actually protect my account?"

 

All of a sudden this smooth talker turned into a stuttering mess. Feeling as though this was going nowhere I told him I will take it further, he was pushing for me to tell him that I was happy with the resolution!? - I told him "tell me how you have resolved my complaint if I just said am still going to take it further??"… more stuttering.

 

It was clear that HSBC organise these phonecalls to give the impression that they are taking you seriously, however they are not. You are speaking to the same people as the general call centres; the title of ‘Complaints Resolution Manager’ is a bulls**t cover.

 

Anyway he did say that he would re-launch the investigation into the cashpoint issue but I haven’t heard anything back and I’m not holding my breath.

 

I am going to send another letter stating that I am still waiting for a satisfactory response. Just to let them know I am still on it. :cool: I will have nothing more to do with this case over the phone with them... letters only.

 

The ombudsman service has been equally as useless, they haven’t even bothered to reply to my email :evil:

 

Yours frustrated,

 

Hadyanth.

Edited by hadyanth

Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Hiya Hady, typical HSBC, hoping your stupid or trusting enough to believe them :rolleyes:.

 

Just keep banging in the letters telling them they have not resolved the dispute :D

 

pete

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Will do Pete :)

 

The longer this goes on the stronger my resolve. This annoys me because (compared to other banks) they aren't half bad when it comes to other things.

 

Anyhoo, i'll type up another letter and post it here. Maybe someone else in the same boat could use it.

 

Cheers.


Obtained Judgement

:D

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Quote:

 

Confucius say, Man who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

 

 

 

__________________

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................... ......................... ....

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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