Barclayloan CCA Request

[TheJester84]

Previously I got a Barclays Resolve loan which was offer to me over the phone and if I remeber correctly, without me signing anything.

 

I recently requested a copy of the signed CCA to check enforcability.

 

The letter was posted on 14/07/09 and delivered the following day. Today 4/08/09 I recieved a printed unsigned copy of the CCA.

 

did have them on the phone the other day asking for payment to which I had told them I was waiting for a copy of the CCA which they had defaulted on providing

 

 

I am wondering what my next step should be, I know they have sent me a CCA but obviously not a signed one.

 

I have found this letter on the fourms and was wondering if I should send this or anything other instead?

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Also can someone just give me a quick run down of the 12+2 days does that include the day delivered?

Thanks

Edited August 10, 2009 by TheJester84

[vengeancedemon]

The time scale is 2 days allowed for delivery, then 12 working days ( excluding Bank Holidays and weekends) to provide the response ie by day 12 Mr Postman should have delivered to you.

 

Did you send the CCA request Recorded? The 12 days will start from the date that the request was received

[TheJester84]

yeah it was sent special delivery and signed for the next day so I assume it would be 12 days from and including the 15th.

 

My main concern is the current CCA they have sent is unsigned so what should I do next?

 

Thanks for the quick reply

[vengeancedemon]

I'll leave this for experten to answer properly, but yep, 12 working days from the date of receipt, sound move to send it as a signed for letter though, documentary proff that they have received it and so cant lie their way out of their responsibilities

[TheJester84]

Thanks, I will keenly wait as if I need to send off another letter I want to try and be pretty prompt

[slick132]

Approximately when was the loan made.

 

Read Link No5 in my signature below about loan agreements.

 

[TheJester84]

The loan was taken out approx July 2006

 

I have had a look through the link in your signature and the unsigned CCA I have been sent does seem to be enforcable but it is unsigned. Can you tell me what my next step should be, do I try to obtain a signed version or simply send the letter I posted above?

Edited August 5, 2009 by rchambers84

[TheJester84]

I have also just found this letter which I think may be more suited to my situation however it doesnt mention that I am requesting a copy of the CCA with my signature on? For all I know they could have just written the CCA they sent me the day they posted it and simply put a previous date on it. Can anyone advise?

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited August 5, 2009 by rchambers84

[slick132]

As regards the enforceability of this a/c, without your signature on the agreement, my understanding is that the agreement is not properly executed and not enforceable.

 

The 2nd letter should be fine to send. As with all our Template letters, adapt it as necessary before sending.

 

[TheJester84]

thanks for the help, just to clear up the 12 days + 2 thing, if it was sent on 14/07 and delivered tyhe next day that means they would be in default on the 31/07 is this correct?

[slick132]

Hi TJ,

 

By my calcs, posted on 14th = delivered on 18th. Then 12 working days puts them in default if no reply by 3rd August.

 

TBH, I'm not sure if you have to allow 2 working days or ordinary days for posting, which would put them in default just one day earlier.

[TheJester84]

I know it was delivered on the 15th as it was special SD signed for

 

I assume however they will still be in dafault as although they have responded they have not provided a true signed copy of the CCA as requested

[slick132]

If signed for on 15th, then they're in default if no reply by 2nd August.

 

In their opinion, they HAVE provided what they consider to be required of them by virtue of the CCA1974. Or at least that is what they'll continue to say.

[TheJester84]

last question hopefully beofore I sen the letter, should I send it to the address I sent the first letter

 

Barclays Bank Plc1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

 

Or should I send it to the address they replied from

 

Barclays Bank Plc

Complex Servicing Centre

PO Box 362

Manchester

M60 3PN

 

(the PO Box wasnt on the top of the letter just on the next page whish had a different title but the same postcode, just dont want to give them the excuse that they havent recieved it)

 

Hopefully this question wont sound too stupid

[slick132]

You can use the address from which they last replied.

 

However, if you come to issue any formal proceedings against BC, read this first - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/173450-use-right-name-when.html

[TheJester84]

I have sent the letter as above and recieved a letter the same day just staing I have missed a payment (obviously because they defaulted) and I should pay imediately or get in touch. Will I need to get in touch with them? Also what would be the procedure if they were to phone me which they inevitably will do I answer the call and discuss things or simply answer and state that I will only communicate in writting?

 

Thanks for the help

[slick132]

They'll start to contact you by letter and phone.

 

On phone, tell them you are recording all incoming calls, refuse to answer security questions, tell them you'll communicate in writing only and then hang up. If you recognise their number on your mobile for instance, refuse the call.

 

Keep a log of all their phone calls in case you need to complain about harassment.

[TheJester84]

I have sent Barclays a letter asking for the CCA (see topic below) and recieved an unsigned one back, so sent another requesting a signed one and saying as they have not replied in time the accouht is in legal dispute. I have since (to my old address might I add) recieved what looks like a standard template requesting payment saying I am behind. Can someone tell me what my next move should be in reply to this letter?

[slick132]

Hi TJ,

 

Unsigned by whom - you, the bank or both.

 

[TheJester84]

by both it was just looked like a freshly typed template

[slick132]

Ahaa, so have they just sent you their normal Terms and Conditions, but nothing personal to you.

[TheJester84]

They sent me what I can only assume is an un-signed template in reply to me first request (from memory the loan was sorted via phone so nothing was signed but I may be wrong) then I sent my second letter saying the first didnt comply send me a signed copy. Since that time I missed a payment as the account was in dispute so they sent me a standard letter to say I have missed a payment, I should contact them to remedy the situation etc. Do I need to do anything futher or do I just wait for their next semi personalised reply?

[slick132]

If they've failed to send you the agreement, then the a/c is in dispute and you don't have to pay if you don't want to.

 

Can you confirm the approx dates of the letters so we have a picture of your timescale.

[TheJester84]

First request sent on the 14/07 then reply sent on 06/08 I will get the replies scanned in tonight

[TheJester84]

I have sent Barlcays two letter regarding my loan account, this first one for a copy of the signed CCA which they returned a printed unsigned copy followed by a standard missed payment/request for payment letter. I then replied explaining I wanted the signed CCA. Since then I have not recieved any sort of requests for payment etc however the debt is still there if I look at my online banking.

 

Can someone advise me as to what the next step a should take would be?