RM and Postman who hasnt been delivering mail due to dog?

[mazbck]

Very strange one here, and not sure if Im in the correct forum thread?

 

I have an elderly BC dog as you can see by my picture, and she sits behind the front door everyday and barks at the postman as he is delivering, she never touches the mail, she only barks from about 5ft away.

 

Today my hubby caught the PM walking away, and asked him if that was our mail, to which he replied yes, and can we control our dog, as he didnt want his fingers chewed off(impossible as the dog has hardly any teeth), and he has met the dog before when I have been in the garden. This isnt our usual PM, he is one that fills in when the usual is off. The PM was going to have a proper go at my hubby about the hound, and said we had to get a cage or he wouldnt deliver the mail. Hubby asked if there was a problem then why couldnt someone have said before now, and if he didnt post the mail, he could put it in the utility room which is locked and has a letterbox!

 

On hindsight to this, I have now realised that I have a lot of mail that was due this past 2 weeks that I havent recieved including my son's Motobility car insurance policy and CTC/WTC award letters.

 

Surely if there had been a problem with the PM and Dog, the PM should have KNOCKED on the door to tell me, or put a note through the door.

 

 

There has been no official complaint against the dog, its just this PM. My usual postie is a star and always has a dog sweet for our mutt when he sees her, and pets her rotten!

 

I have contacted RM customer serivces who were as useful as a chocolate fireguard, and Im not sure what I should do now about the 'missinf/undelivered' mail?

[mazbck]

I know its a serious problem with posties and dogs attacking, but surely this one should have informed us of the problem instead of not delivering the mail.

[mustang67]

It's probably classed as a Health & Safety issue. Like anything else nowadays common sense goes out of the window.

[patdavies]

Whilst I accept that there are dogs which attack posties and some are badly injured in this way, I think that this particular post,am is over-reacting and that is the line I would take with RM.

 

The dog is behind a closed door and the only possible way that the postman could be injured - even if the dog wanted to - is if he sticks his fingers through the letterbox - which he has no reason to do.

[Guest wino]

My son used to have a paper round a few years ago. Someone came around to our house to give him a training session.

 

He was told not to deliver to a house if a dog was loose in the garden or if it barked inside the house. We were told this was common practice for anyone who delivers to properties, leafleters, postmen etc

[raydetinu]

suggest you go to the local delivery office and ask to see the manager and to trace any missing or delayed letters. face to face may sort the problem if you explain about dog being harmless and he can advise all the pm's.

[rickyd]

Royal Mail have increased the number of suspended deliveries recently due to an increase in attacks by dogs. They do have the right to stop delivering, but the process is usually to contact the householder to discuss the situation first.

 

Mail not delivered should be taken back to the local sorting office, so I would be going there to discuss the problem. I agree with you that RM Customer Service is way less than useful and would always take the direct face to face approach.

[shywazz]

MY partner is a royal mail post delivery person, and i've lost count how many times he has had his fingers nipped or trousers torn due to unattended dogs and dogs sat behind the letter-box waiting for any1 that dares to put anything through the door, common sense would be to locate the animal in another room while you know post might be expected, allowing the postman/woman to deliver the mail without the prospect of been bitten or hassled by owners dogs. End of day its the owners that have the legal responiblties to keep the animal under proper control at all times.

Recent newspaper stories show that there is a huge increase in such attacks from peoples pets, and the well been of employees comes before delivery of some un wanted bill wouldnt you think. If the said postman has raised a issue with ur address due to the dog been presence during delivery, this can take up to 14 days to issue a letter to you, with regards the problem, and to contact the delivery office to arrange other ways of getting the mail to you, or for you to arrange collection. untill the issue of the animal is resolved, hence insuring the safe entry and exit from your premises for the post person. And before anyone starts to muster on getting a defence together, think how you would feel if your fingers ended up in the belly of a animal or u can't sit down for serveral days due to a chunk been taken from your rear. Everyone is entitled to perform there employment duties with out fear of harm or loss of limb.

On hindsight of the possible mail loss, or mail taken back to the sorting office due to ur Dog, do contact the persons whom might have sent it, before going in all guns blazing, after all, postmen/woman can only deliver whats delivered to the sorting office to be bundled and taken out on there rounds, after all it would'nt be fair to place blame if there was NO post for delivery in the 1st place.

Food for thought, it doesnt matter how doesile a dog looks, if it wants to attack it will, and some dogs have seriuosly hurt children and adults alike, even to the point of death. Dogs can not be trusted 100% which the postman or any1 making deliveries has to decide in a split second whether to deliver or not.

[citizenkain]

Holdon holdon,how are they gonna deliver the letter explaining about the dog if nobody wants to post it??

[postggj]

ok people

lets take this from a postie who has his left index finger missing and yes, i used to have two dogs myself for 15 years.

 

dog attacks are a very seriouse problem for which people think postmen and dogs are a joke.

i can assure you its not.

 

the routine would be the posman would report the matter to the manager, a report will be put in the walk log as dog hazard.

if the attacks continue a manager will put a letter through the box saying if things dont change, delievery will be suspended and the customer will have to collect the mail themself.

 

most of the time its just education and the customer is more than happy.

but you do get people whos attitude is sod off.

then mail delievery is suspended

ref mail going missing

 

i posted a special delievery last wednesday,

it was only delieverd by royal mail track and trace

yesterday

 

says it all

 

so much for this super mail centre at swindon

[mazbck]

I know one item of mail was posted 24th July and its still not here, the company is going to re-issue the certs.

 

Surely if the dog was a problem when he first started the round, he could have knocked on the door and explained, and I could make sure the dog is in another room when he comes round in the morning.

 

The regular postie has never mentioned there is a problem to me at all.

[postggj]

you still have a regular postman

 

its prob the new postie being a bit bitchy

 

if you had seen members of staff and the stitches, you would think twice on knocking doors

 

dog attacks are not that common but when they do, its usualy seriouse

[skonk]

Sounds like you need your regular postie back! I do understand what you're saying about he should've knocked, explained the problem, and that would be that. But, in reality, this postie hears a bark, or sees a dog, and thinks, nah, not going near there, and continues to get his round done cos he wants to go home.

 

I own a big rottweiler, and I make sure she's behind a gate in the hallway before I even attempt to open the door to anyone. I'm lucky enough to have a postie who loves rotties, so he always has a treat for her, but to a postie who is filling in for him, he takes one look if I'm on the step with her, on a lead, and smiles nervously and leave my letters on the wall!

 

My rottie is the most docile dog you could ever meet, but, is very boisterous cos she's still a pup, but, people don't know that and all they see, in their eyes, is some big bouncing rottweiler looking at them! I respect that and wouldn't expect them to knock on my door if there was a problem in delivering my mail.

 

No matter how placid your dog is, I think it's just probably easier to put the dog in the back garden, or the back kitchen, until your post has been delivered. No point in trying to make someone change their mind about a dog. If they're not a dog person, no one can convert them to see how friendly the dog is. They just see/hear DOG! then they're out of there! Your regular postie probably hasn't mentioned it to anyone as he doesn't see a problem, and more than likely comes into contact with quite a few dogs and their owners during his round. But to the replacement postie, it's all new to him, and as someone above said, may have been injured by a dog in the past, and instantly thinks, not delivering there.

 

Personally, I think the postie is overreacting, but trying to see it from his point of view, he hears barking and won't put his hand anywhere near the letterbox, in case of fingers nipped, and believes himself that this could happen, giving him the right to be concerned for his health, hence not deliver the mail.

Edited August 5, 2009 by skonk

[hightail]

it's just probably easier to put the dog in the back garden, or the back kitchen, until your post has been delivered

 

Whereas I have sympathy with any postie having to deliver to a house with a seemingly aggressive dog, what you suggest would be impractical in many areas. For example, I would have to shut my aged dog in the kitchen from 8am to 3pm to be sure I didn't upset the postman.

[gyzmo]

My flatmates a posty and I know he will have sympathy with the posty in question, especially as my flatmate has been hospitalised several times through dog bites - the owners of such dogs claiming that "they wouldn't harm a fly" etc etc.

 

The amont of times he has had to defend himself against dogs and to have the owner scream abuse is unbelieveable.

 

A posty's right to work safely comes above a person's right to get their mail delivered.

[patdavies]

I agree with both shywazz and Gyzmo that posties should not be put at risk from injury by dogs.

 

However, in the OP's case, the dog is behind the door. Unless the postman deliberately puts his fingers through the letterbox, there is no chance of them being bitten. I can think of no reason whatsoever for the postman to need to do that.

 

There is no case to refuse delivery here, IMO

[gyzmo]

I dunno. When I was 9, my dog was a bit misbehaved when it came to people approaching the door.

 

We warned the posty who teased the dog by putting mail in and out of the letter box and then started waggling it about. One day he got bitten doing this, but admitted that it was his own fault.

 

And in a lot of cases, i is impossible not to have o insert your hand in some way to open some people's letter boxes.

[hightail]

There is no case to refuse delivery here, IMO

 

I agree with you as the dog is behind a closed door. My dog, like many, barks if someone approaches the door but he doesn't go near. If we get to the stage where posties can refuse to deliver mail because they can hear a dog inside it's surely gone a step too far and becomes one of those health and safety stupitities.

 

It's a different matter altogether if there is a dog hurling itself at the door or even sitting just inside and ready to have a go - whether through excitement or aggression that behaviour leads to a real and justified fear. The easy answer there is to buy an external mailbox so the postie doesn't have to risk fingers.

[mazbck]

YAY regular postie back today, he knocked on the door, and gave the dog a sweetie!!! I told him about yesterday and he is going to check the sorting office for any mail for us.

 

He was a bit stumped at why the other Postie didnt just knock on the door either!

[soltan]

Maybe your regular postie giving the dog a treat aint the best idea because the time will come when they are off again and more than likely the person covering them won't have a treat. They are probably nervous because it waits for a treat.

[Jan4a]

I used to have a spaniel that was very well behaved and was completely baffled when the Postman asked a neighbour to tell me he'd recently tried to bite his fingers - until one of my other neighbours told me he'd seen the paperboy deliberately winding him up by putting the newspaper in and out of the letterbox. This made the dog hate anyone posting anything and explained why all my post was suddenly being chewed up!

 

We agreed that the Postman should put my post through my neighbour's letterbox and he would pass it to me for a short period until I had a basket fitted on the inside and his fingers were safe again! I think they sometimes have to put their fingers in because of the spring on the letterbox.

 

It was a nice common sense approach from the Postman and, with my neighbour's help, issue was resolved so everyone was happy.

 

Doesn't sound like much common sense from your temporary postman....

[gyzmo]

Just spoke to my flatmate again about this who is more up on the OPs situation (as opposed to the general issue with dogs and visitors).

 

He said the following applies:

 

1. If there is a dog at large in the street, a posty can report it and need not deliver in that street if there is a reasonable belief that the dog will attack.

2. If a posty is attacked on the street, RM can refuse to deliver post to that street until an assurance is gained from the owner that the dog will be properly controlled.

3. A posty cannot apparently refuse to deliver to a house if the dog is behind doors unless problems have been reported previously and the owner informed.

 

There is a growing campaign at the moment to tighten up dog laws, and it is not an issue that only effects posties. In Scotland, posties are given sonic alarms to ward off dogs - I good idea imho.

[rickyd]

Royal Mail offers this helpful comment:-

 

General exceptions

We cannot deliver to an address if this puts the health and safety of our staff at risk, for example, when an address can only be reached by crossing dangerous terrain. In this instance, we would suspend delivery to this address on a long-term basis. Or, if we suspend service following a specific incident, for example, if one of our staff is assaulted or attacked by a dog, the suspension is likely to be in the short-term.

 

This seems to suggest its their call. My guess is that the union would have plenty to say if management were to override this rule, and we all know what the postal workers union are capable of.

[Jan4a]

The World's gone mad - what happened to good old fashioned common sense? Why is everything always so complicated? Do the lawmakers sit in their ivory towers and think "right, to earn our salaries we'd better make the rules as complicated as possible so we can confuse the hell out of everyone and they won't realise we don't know what we're doing".

 

Sorry, had a whole week of nothing being straightforward .....

[gyzmo]

The law merely represents human society. It's people who have gone mad and the law reflects it.