Sainsbury's Bank -v- Dilly2009

[Dilly2009]

I have posted this in the HBOS section since Sainsbury's Bank is managed by HBOS staff and subject to their process and same DCA's.

 

In late 2002 I took out a loan with Sainsbury's Bank (attached as pdf). In 2005 I was made redundant and managed to keep up repayments until my current account provider pulled my overdraft and I missed two payments to Sainsbury's until I was able to pay them. In any case it was too late and they served a DN on me, at that time I had so much going on that I did not even open the DN letter (or keep the envelope).

 

I contacted Sainsbury's Bank but they told me to contact J&J Collections who were totally unhelpful and then I was thrown to the dreaded Blair Oliver & Scott (BOS) who I paid £500/month to (my original payments were £385.04), hence within a few months I was already paying the loan off faster than the planned repayment schedule. I continued to get lots of automated letters from BOS which they told me to ignore each time I called them to ask what the problem was.

 

In the end I made a complaint to the CEO of Sainsbury's Bank and the FOS who were useless. Their CEO had a customer services bod contact me who asked me to send them a copy of the DN (I did not disclose any dates), I sent the DN (attached) and did not hear anything back?

 

I then sent in a request for the agreement to BOS and did not get a response, they cashed the £1 fee though.

 

Financial circumstances changed again so I dropped the payments from £500/month to £10/month and told them, they did not seem too concerned. I have now been thrown to Moorcroft who I think will now litigate.

 

I am based in Scotland but have experience of the civil litigation process up here so just now need to know:-

 

1. Is the attached agreement enforceable?

 

2. Does the DN look legitimate?

 

They did refund some of the charges so a small % of the DN sum includes charges and late payment fees.

 

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

**SEE DN Below in Thread 10 - removed bar-code - they can be read**

Sainsburys Bank Agreement.pdf

Edited August 2, 2009 by Dilly2009
Remove bar code from DN

[postggj]

On The Sainsbury Letter, What Was The Date Of The Letter And The Date Payment Had To Be Made To Rectify The Breach

[Monty2007]

DN Dates?

Edited August 2, 2009 by Monty2007

[postggj]

Well The Default Notice Is Crap As Usual From Hbos

 

The Default Has To Give 14 Days Plus 2 For Service To Rectify The Breach

 

Dont Tell Them This

This Only Works If A Court Claim Is Brought Against You

 

All You Would Be Liable For Are The Arrears Up To The Date Of The Notice

Thats All

Nothing Else

[Dilly2009]

On The Sainsbury Letter, What Was The Date Of The Letter And The Date Payment Had To Be Made To Rectify The Breach

 

Hi postggj

 

The letter was dated 04/10/2005 and the Date to remedy was before 14/10/2005.

 

Thanks

[postggj]

Hold The Fort

2005

 

Thats 7 Days

 

Just Checking On Service Still Being 2 Days Though

[Dilly2009]

Well The Default Notice Is Crap As Usual From Hbos

 

The Default Has To Give 14 Days Plus 2 For Service To Rectify The Breach

 

Dont Tell Them This

This Only Works If A Court Claim Is Brought Against You

 

All You Would Be Liable For Are The Arrears Up To The Date Of The Notice

Thats All

Nothing Else

 

Even back in 2005?

[Dilly2009]

Any views on the agreement?

[postggj]

Ill Be Corrected If Wrong But The 7 Days Is Correct As Its 1 2005 Agreement

 

Wait For More Replies

[Dilly2009]

DN re-posted here

[postggj]

Please Take Out The Link

 

It Has Your Name

Address Etc

[postggj]

Repost Minus Those Details Or Can A Mod Do It

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello postggj!

 

No Guests, so I think Dilly2009 got away with it!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Dilly2009]

Thanks - I messed up and posted the orignal - its late!

[Dilly2009]

Ok, the DN can wait, though thanks to postggj for spotting my silly mistake............

 

Thanks to BRW (very sharp eye indeed) it now transpires:

 

My Sainsbury's Bank agreement for a £25 K loan over 7 years states the total charge for credit at £7,343.36 and monthly repayments of £385.04 - however this calculates for an APR of 7.7% and NOT 7.4% as stated in my agreement.

 

 

Q: Is 0.3% significant and what is the actual monetary difference?

 

 

Using the agreed loan APR rate of 7.4% (through 2 different calculation methods):

 

The total charge for credit should have been £6,859.41 which equates to a monthly repayment fee of £379.27.

 

Hence over the loan period of 7 years I would have paid them an EXTRA £483.95 or 6.5% over the real charge for credit (and its a bigger number!).

 

This obviously also has a bearing on the DN which must also be incorrect by definition, to what extent I will now calculate what the real default sum should have been.

 

$M Question:- Is the above reason enough to argue that the agreement is invalid?

 

I would appreciate comments and advice, this has not yet gone to litigation.............but is likely to! I can feel another writ in the air:eek:

[Dilly2009]

My calculation using the correct payments of £379.27/month from the start of the loan to default would give a default sum of £715.66 rather than the £823.09 demanded. A difference of £107.43.

 

Any thoughts on the defence for this one?

[Monty2007]

Ok, the DN can wait, though thanks to postggj for spotting my silly mistake............

 

Thanks to BRW (very sharp eye indeed) it now transpires:

 

My Sainsbury's Bank agreement for a £25 K loan over 7 years states the total charge for credit at £7,343.36 and monthly repayments of £385.04 - however this calculates for an APR of 7.7% and NOT 7.4% as stated in my agreement.

 

 

Q: Is 0.3% significant and what is the actual monetary difference?

 

 

Using the agreed loan APR rate of 7.4% (through 2 different calculation methods):

 

The total charge for credit should have been £6,859.41 which equates to a monthly repayment fee of £379.27.

 

Hence over the loan period of 7 years I would have paid them an EXTRA £483.95 or 6.5% over the real charge for credit (and its a bigger number!).

 

This obviously also has a bearing on the DN which must also be incorrect by definition, to what extent I will now calculate what the real default sum should have been.

 

$M Question:- Is the above reason enough to argue that the agreement is invalid?

 

I would appreciate comments and advice, this has not yet gone to litigation.............but is likely to! I can feel another writ in the air:eek:

 

Are there any similar cases with incorrect API's?

[Dilly2009]

Does anyone know of any other cases where the APR/Total Charge for credit is incorrect?

 

My Sainsbury's Bank agreement for a £25 K loan over 7 years at 7.4% and states the total charge for credit at £7,343.36 and monthly repayments of £385.04 - however this calculates for an APR of 7.7% and NOT 7.4% as stated in my agreement.

 

 

Q: Is 0.3% significant and what is the actual monetary difference?

 

 

Using the agreed loan APR rate of 7.4% (through 2 different calculation methods):

 

The total charge for credit should have been £6,859.41 which equates to a monthly repayment fee of £379.27.

 

Hence over the loan period of 7 years I would have paid them an EXTRA £483.95 or 6.5% over the real charge for credit (and its a bigger number!).

 

This obviously also has a bearing on the DN which must also be incorrect by definition, to what extent I will now calculate what the real default sum should have been.

 

$M Question:- Is the above reason enough to argue that the agreement is invalid?