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ShowMeTheLight

Unenforceable Credit Agreement : Barclaycard

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After deciding to take action about writing off my debt I wrote letters to my creditors requesting the Original Signed Credit Agreement. I have recieved a response from Barclaycard which is as follows.

 

Dear Showmethelight

 

Reference: Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I write further to a letter requesting a copy of your executed agreement for the above account.

 

The information we must provide to you under the terms of section 78 is prescribed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by the consumer credit (Cancellation Noticesand Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Under Section 78, we must supply you with a copy of your executed agreement and a statement of accounts which is practicable to refer.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your latest executed agreement. This is a statement of the terms of your agreement and with us and incorporates any variations to the terms made since you entered into the agreement. However, the interest rates have been ommitted and the fees and charges have been suspended and are no longer applicable due to the current status of your account.

 

As your account is now in a recovery programme, further information relating to the current state of your account can be obtained directly from your recovery Team od Debt Management agency.

 

This completes our obligation to you under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Ahmaad Bashir

 

Barclaycard Customer Services.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Barclaycard have sent me the following

 

1. Terms and conditions which contains no signature.

2. Cancellation form.

 

What is the best way to proceed now? I would really appreciate the direction of the senior and junior Caggers.

 

Much obliged.

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JUST FOR THE RECORD SEND THIS

 

 

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

In your response you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any (prescribed terms / signature) means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3).

 

I am granting to you a further 21 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above account is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt.

 

After this period you should close the file and cease processing an personal data relating to me on this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited by lilly white
SPELLING

Id quot circumiret, circumveniat.

 

please do not take my word for anything please do your own research All that i make comments on are done in good faith and to the best of my knowledge

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Send this letter:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

__________________


:)I am not an expert, but I can give good advice about Brighthouse:)

 

Am learning more and more about DCA's too :)

 

I have no legal experience and all advice given is based on the knowledge I've gained from this site.

 

<------If you think I have been helpful, please feel free to tip my scales - remember to put your CAG name though!

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how did you get that off bc? they refuse to acknowledge anything other than a copy of conditions to me lol, but grats on getting that :)

 

Nm i misread that, was early before i had caffeine lol

Edited by izzitme101

question everything!

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Thank You, Clemma.

 

I will send the letter today recorded delivery.

 

Regards

 

Showmehthelight.

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I have just sent the letter, having trawled through the CAG forums I have noticed that when a response such as the one I have recieved is evident then there is a good likelyhood of success, is this the case.

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Yes indeedy :) Barclaycard never seem to have any enforceable agreements.

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Ive never seen an enforceable Sharkleycard agreement- only application forms without the Prescribed Terms.

 

Mine certainly weren't ;)

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After deciding to take action about writing off my debt I wrote letters to my creditors requesting the Original Signed Credit Agreement. I have recieved a response from Barclaycard which is as follows.

 

Dear Showmethelight

 

Reference: Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I write further to a letter requesting a copy of your executed agreement for the above account.

 

The information we must provide to you under the terms of section 78 is prescribed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by the consumer credit (Cancellation Noticesand Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Under Section 78, we must supply you with a copy of your executed agreement ( correct ) and a statement of accounts which is practicable to refer.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your latest executed agreement. This is a statement of the terms of your agreement and with us and incorporates any variations to the terms made since you entered into the agreement. However, the interest rates have been ommitted and the fees and charges have been suspended and are no longer applicable due to the current status of your account.

 

As your account is now in a recovery programme, further information relating to the current state of your account can be obtained directly from your recovery Team od Debt Management agency.

 

This completes our obligation to you under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Ahmaad Bashir

 

Barclaycard Customer Services.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Barclaycard have sent me the following

 

1. Terms and conditions which contains no signature.

2. Cancellation form.

 

What is the best way to proceed now? I would really appreciate the direction of the senior and junior Caggers.

 

Much obliged.

 

You cannot have a latest executed agreement, unless you signed another, which I doubt if you have. They know what they have to supply.

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I have sent £1 to Barclaycard to ask for my agreement and their reply says that because the account was opened on the internet, they do not have to produce any paper documents. Does anyone know if this is right?

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I have sent £1 to Barclaycard to ask for my agreement and their reply says that because the account was opened on the internet, they do not have to produce any paper documents. Does anyone know if this is right?

 

a) You need to start a barclays thread for comments

b) When did you open the account? post Dec2004?

c) Utter tosh IMHO they still need to show you something

 

S.


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***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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I have sent £1 to Barclaycard to ask for my agreement and their reply says that because the account was opened on the internet, they do not have to produce any paper documents. Does anyone know if this is right?

 

 

You might want to try sending them this letter :

 

Ref No. xxxxxxxxxxx

Client Ref. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

In response to your xxxxxxxxx to me, dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have so far failed to comply with my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

 

The documents that you are required to send me are a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also required to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

PLEASE NOTE : 127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

I now require written clarification as to whether or not you can supply the documents referred to above. Should you ignore this request you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

With reference to all the above the account remains in default and as you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

 

Furthermore

As you have so far failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows –

2.8 (i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful and vexatious.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

N. B. You should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours sincerely

Edited by karenruthj8
removal of eronious gumph..........

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I have just recieved a another response from Barclaycard, seems they are intent on playing hardball. Here is what they have to say from when I first started this thread. As usual I would be grateful for a response from the esteemed memebers both junior and senior of the consumer action group.

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

BARCLAYCARD SERVICES

 

Reference : Section 78 of the Credit Consumer Act 1974

 

I write further the the letter whereby you note dissatisfaction to the documents you recieved in relation to a request made under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Firstly, Credit cards are regulated under section 78. Section 78(1) of the act states that the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement and a statement of account which is practicable to refer. Regarding a statmenet of account which is practible to refer, the letter which we sent in response to a section 78(1) request includes this information. To cover the issue of executed agreement.

 

How does the Act define an "Executable Agreement"

"executed Agreement" is defined in section 189 of the act as "a document, signed by or on behalf of the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement"

 

What do the rules say about providing a copy?

The consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies Documents) regulations 1983 ("The Regulations") made under the act deal with how we are to provide a "copy" of an agreement. These regulations provide that any copy of the agreement supplied to a debtor should be a "true copy". Regulations 3(2) provides that a copy may omit certain informations, which allows you to be provided with a true copy, not a complete copy.

 

What Happens if the Original Agreement has been varied since it was originally signed?

The Regulations also set out what should happen where the agreement has been varied since it was signed. Regulation 7 provides creditors with a choice of including in the copy of the executed agreement either a copy of the latest notice of variation relating to each discrete term which has been varied. Regulation 7 does not state that the copy of the agreement shall include a statement of original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Regulation 7 allows us to provide you with a "True Copy" which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of the provision of the copy.

 

Conclusions in relation to the document we have to provide

A "Copy" of an agreement will satisfy the requirements even if the signature box and/or the signatures are not included as clarified by regulation 3(2) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellations Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

The defination of "Executed agreement" refers to a document ebbodying the terms of the regulated agreement. When this is read with regulation 7 - For agreements that have been varied - a copy of the original agreement would not embody the terms. A copy of the agreement as varied would embody the terms.

 

The issue of what is an executed agreement has been interpreted in the high courts. It was held that an executed agreement as the credit agreement which is sent out to the cardholder when they recieve their credit card; therefore, establishing what is the original executed agreement. When the agreement has been varied, Regulation 7 mentioned above applies.

 

To summerise, if the agreement has not been varied, we must send the original executed agreement; this would be the credit agreement which is currently regulated. If the credit agreement has been varied, we must send the current credit agreement as this will contain the terms of the regulated agreement. We have sent you this and the original executed agreement for reference.

 

To adress any issue about our lack of compliance with section 60 of the consumer credit act 1973. Section 60 relates to the form and contents agreement. All Barclaycards credit agreements are in compliance with this. You may state that the application form which we provided to you, for reference, when you made a request under section 78 does not adhere to section 60. This is not a complete copy of your application form, but rather an excerpt to show you signed a contract with us. When you completed your application form, the document would have been presented to you in full, in legible form, and would have adhered to the requirements under section 60 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I hope this letter has helped with your concerns about the documents you have been supplied with under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As our response fulfils the obligations under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974, you should carry on paying the debt you have accrued on your account. We do not class this account in dispute, you have been supplied with the relevent documentation under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974, and we will carry on with the collection service. If you send us further correspondance questioning compliance with these areas of law, we are not obliged to respond beyond the statutory response we have already given you. We would require you to provide comprehensive legal and documentary evidence to support your claim to ascertain whether response is necessary.

 

~Yours Sincerely

 

Nathen Russell

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

This is quite a comprehensive letter and I am not sure how to proceed. I would really apprciate your help on this one. Thanks ion advance.

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I have just recieved a another response from Barclaycard, seems they are intent on playing hardball. Here is what they have to say from when I first started this thread. As usual I would be grateful for a response from the esteemed memebers both junior and senior of the consumer action group.

 

 

This is quite a comprehensive letter and I am not sure how to proceed. I would really apprciate your help on this one. Thanks ion advance.

 

Standard response I'm afraid... you say t&c they say excerpts from the executed agreement :-(

 

en passe I'm afraid. Possible letter to send.....

 

Dear sharks of the Barclays

 

I note your comments about what you feel can be missing from a "true copy" of the original executed agreement in response to a s78 request. However these differ from the OFT who I quote:-

 

" A ‘true copy of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which became payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid by the debtor (the latter two must include the amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently, he cannot otherwise.

 

We note your concerns that in the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone’s liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it as an Unfair Practice under section 25(2)d of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and to provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried of disputed.”

 

As the terms and conditions bear no resemblance to any executed agreement in current existence I would suggest you supply an actual copy of the agreement as originally requested.

 

Regards

 

S.


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Standard response I'm afraid... you say t&c they say excerpts from the executed agreement :-(

 

en passe I'm afraid. Possible letter to send.....

 

 

 

S.[/color][/font]

 

Sorry, I did not understand your last comment "en passe", does this mean that I dont have a chance of having this debt written off even though they cant produce a signed copy of anything. The Executive Agreement and Cancellations that they provided was just a form and did not even contain my signature. Does anyone have a second opinion.

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Hello ShowMeTheLight!

 

Does anyone have a second opinion.

 

I think The_Shadow was just saying you have simply come up against a blocking move by Barclays, who have sent rubbish to cover up for the fact they may not have an Agreement to send you!

 

This is just a little game they play, so your job now is to keep needling them until you get as close to the truth as it is possible to get via letters.

 

I'd also send them a SAR, because that should reveal what, if anything they have.

 

If no joy, then you can consider sending them a CPR 31.16 request to ask to make a physical inspection. See this Thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html#post1868913

 

Don't be put off.

 

What you need to realise is Barclays will not roll over and play dead at the first letter, so it's now a case of chipping away at them until you get to the answer.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hello ShowMeTheLight!

 

 

 

I think The_Shadow was just saying you have simply come up against a blocking move by Barclays, who have sent rubbish to cover up for the fact they may not have an Agreement to send you!

 

This is just a little game they play, so your job now is to keep needling them until you get as close to the truth as it is possible to get via letters.

 

I'd also send them a SAR, because that should reveal what, if anything they have.

 

If no joy, then you can consider sending them a CPR 31.16 request to ask to make a physical inspection. See this Thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html#post1868913

 

Don't be put off.

 

What you need to realise is Barclays will not roll over and play dead at the first letter, so it's now a case of chipping away at them until you get to the answer.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Thanks BRW - Shall I send them the Subject Access Request or the letter outlined above? As always I am grateful for your assistance.

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Or you could just ignore them. Despite the idiotic letters they write, thy know full well that what they have sent is not any kind of enforceable agreement, and that the account is therefore in dispute. All you get by playing letter ping-pong is a load more bullshine from them.

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Hello ShowMeTheLight!

 

I think The_Shadow was just saying you have simply come up against a blocking move by Barclays, who have sent rubbish to cover up for the fact they may not have an Agreement to send you!

 

Yep thanks for putting it better than I did :-D

 

S.


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Hello ShowMeTheLight!

 

Thanks BRW - Shall I send them the Subject Access Request or the letter outlined above? As always I am grateful for your assistance.
I'd definitely send the SAR, because that is a Data Subject issue, and is a request to see all the Data they hold in relation to you!

 

That may uncover other useful tasty bits that you can use against them at some point.

 

I would send them some form of letter, if only to draw a line in the sand to say what they have sent is bolly jollocks.

 

The letter above Posted by The_Shadow is just the biscuit I think.

 

But, as Huff&Puff has intimated, don't get into a ping pong match with them, just say what you must say to make it clear they are not trying hard enough, and then set about probing them for any and all information you can tease out of them.

 

Read up about all of their other faces, such as Mercers and Calder Financial, and also bone up on their snarling pet DCAs such as RMA, ScotCall, Westcot, CSL, Power2Annoy etc.

 

Between here and Court, the bit in the middle is your time to build a knock out case against them. They, on the other hand, will squander the time by sending you template letters, after which they will point a variety of deadbeats at you, who will harass you and generally waste your time, if you let them. So, plan ahead, read how they misbehave and, once you are a few steps ahead of them all the way, you will manage the battle and, in doing so, see them for what they are...

 

...exceptionally dull greedy bankers, who have bottomless number-money pockets to buy the services of odious groups who will do their dirty work for them, while they concentrate on what they do best for themselves, at the expense of everyone else.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited by banker_rhymes_with
Forgot Wescot!

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I have just recieved a another response from Barclaycard, seems they are intent on playing hardball. Here is what they have to say from when I first started this thread. As usual I would be grateful for a response from the esteemed memebers both junior and senior of the consumer action group.

 

Hi..........I've read throught Barclay's letter.........as far as I can see it confirms that they cannot supply a copy of the original signed credit agreement. A court would be the only place that it could be decided whether Barclay's have complied or not........and I doubt if they would take that action as it would probably result in them being legally unable to collect this debt......IMO.

 

Stick to your guns............I don't think you need to do anything at all until they start trying to purue the debt. Then you can complain about that and repeat your CCA request.

 

In my case Barclay's do seem to have rolled over, although they won't say that outright............

kind regards krj8

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Thank You so much for your support, I now feel I have a lifeline.

How do I send them a subject action request? Is there any template that someone can point me kindly in the direction of, as ever I would be grateful.

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Hello ShowMeTheLight!

 

Make sure you send all key letters to:

 

The Company Secretary

Barclays Bank plc

1 Churchill Place

London

EC14 5HP

This is especially important if you are sending them a letter telling them to stop harassing you. The reason being, it is going straight to the top, so they cannot later pretend they were not aware because you ended up dealing with some banking minion or DCA much lower down their food chain.

 

They can't plead ignorance if everything important goes to their Registered Office and to the primary person tasked with handling the receipt of documents and letters.

 

So, next step is to send them:

 

(1) Some form of letter to say their s78(1) Response is not acceptable, and you regard the alleged Account as being in dispute.

 

(2) A letter asking them to keep everything in writing, do not call you, do not send employees or agents around, and do not trespass on your land.

 

(3) SAR plus £10 - they have 40 Calendar Days to respond to that from the day after they sign for the delivery of your request letter.

 

Send all via Special Delivery, because you must have proof of delivery. Hang on to that, because it may be needed later if/when they start messing around and/or set their dogs on to you.

 

You can combine (1) and (2) and send them together. Then wait a week or two, and then send them (3), namely the SAR. Reason for delay, is to allow time for the s78(1) dispute to be booked in, because then it should appear in the SAR so you get proof that way that they received your dispute letter and you may get an insight into how they handled it.

 

Parachute bank Account(s)

 

One other thing, if you have any bank accounts with Barclays, then I would open new Accounts elsewhere, and move your banking away from them. They will Hoover out money from a Barclays account if they think they can get away with it, and will use what is know as their Right of Set-Off. Virtually everything you have with them will have that nasty little clause buried in the Terms somewhere. Same applies to most banks, so they are all at it.

 

The fact that the Barclaycard issue will probably be in dispute with them at the time, won't stop them grabbing funds from a Barclays bank account.

 

This is something you must crack on with ASAP, because getting a new Account elsewhere will get harder once you end up fighting one bank. They do close ranks, and will try to trash your financial reputation via their mates the CRAs.

 

If you have a Business Account with them, then crack on with this immediately, because getting a new Business Account elsewhere will be impossible once they start trashing your financial standing. Private Accounts are not so hard to get, but Business Accounts are something else.

 

I would keep the Barclays Accounts open, but just leave 50p in there. One day, this may all be resolved, and you may want to keep using them for basic banking. IOW, use them how it suits you, not how it suits them.

 

Envelopes

 

Finally, I know this has been said, but KEEP ALL ENVELOPES in relation to any letters they send you. Get into that habit, and from now on, never, ever, throw away any envelopes. Ever! One may prove to be incredibly important, and you may not know which one until later.

 

HTH

 

Cheers,

BRW

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For the purposes of a request of the executed agreement under s.77-79 ONLY, barclaycard has complied with your request. This is all they have to send. I repeat, for the needs of s77-79 ONLY. However:

 

1. s.127(3) of CCA, does not say the BC can produce a true copy of the agreement to prove enforceability. It simply says a document with all the prescribed terms and your signature. They will be unable to establish that with true copies without signatures and dates.

 

2. s.127(3) of CCA uses the term "CONTAIN" and ΝΟΤ "EMBODY". A useful interpretation of this has been provided by Berkeley QC in the recent case of Mitchell in Leeds, where the court declared a credit agreement unenforceable because it did not contain in the four corners of the document all the prescribed terms.

CONTAIN means: must be in teh four corners of the document

EMBOBIES means: can be in seperate documents.

 

I repeat, s127(3) says CONTAINS not embodies

 

3. There has been a case in a court of appeals where the Judge clearly said that the prescribed terms and signature of client must be within the four corners of the agreements

 

4. Professor Goode, an authority in Consumer Credit, clearly explains in his literature that the prescribed terms and signature must be within the same document.

 

5. Statutory Instument on credit agreements clearly states that important terms cannot be indespersed across different documents.

 

I got the same response from BC like you. Then tried DSAR and they sent me a microfiche printout of a barely legible agreement with my signature but without any prescribed terms i.e. unenforceable.

 

So this is the reason they are trying to put you off. They most probably have an unenforceable agreement


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