pldsmr , Help with Paypal, please.

[pldsmr]

Please HELP me someone

 

I've been screwed by Pay Pal... I sold my car on Ebay for 500.00 in January for it to come back and haunt me...

The buyer out of the blue has done a 'chargeback' saying it was unothorized Pay Pal has returned the buyers funds and i'm left with a deficit - 500.00 in my Pay Pal account and no car, where is the car?

 

I reported it and got a crime number from the police to find out today that the case has been closed?? Buyer has been eliminated from the enquiry...

 

So i assume someone de-frauded him and used his credit car details and set up ebay account and left me good feedback?? Requested information to try and resolve issue with buyer no success.

 

The car apparently was not registered by the so called buyer and apparently scrapped in march??

 

So why aren't the police investigating further?

 

So where does that leave me ? what do i do know? befor i get debt collectors knocking on my door ......HELP

[kiptower]

so is the car reg'ed to anyone now ?

[pldsmr]

No ..i was the last owner dated up till 31 Jan 09

[legalpickle]

pldsmr: Please start your own thread. If you PM me the link, I will go onto it and attempt to help you there.

[maroondevo52]

pldsmr,

 

I have moved your posts to start a new thread.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[legalpickle]

Thanks maroondevo52.

 

plsmr: What you need to do is write a formal complaint to Paypal, then proceed to the Financial Ombudsman Service either 8 weeks later or when you get the response from Paypal refusing to deal with you.

 

1. Ignore the letters from the debt collectors (probably Robinson Way). If you get calls from them, tell them it's in dispute. If you want, you can write a letter to the debt collectors - send it SPECIAL DELIVERY - stating that the matter is in dispute, therefore in accordance with the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance and the Credit Services Association's member rules, they are not allowed to pursue the alleged debt any further, as you dispute liability for it. Advise them that if they write to you any further you will lodge complaints with the OFT & CSA and may issue court proceedings under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it may be worth a try.

 

2. Prepare a letter of complaint to Paypal, detailing everything & dates. Post a draft here - minus any confidential details. I will then try and proof it for you and post their address.

 

3. Once 2 is completed, send that letter by Royal Mail SPECIAL Delivery (not Recorded/SignedFor as the latter is not guaranteed). Keep us posted on the progress. When you receive a refusal letter from them (which is most likely what will happen) or if 8 weeks go by from the date of delivery of the letter to them, we prepare a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yes, the FOS is quite often useless, but court proceedings in this case is more difficult because Paypal are registered in Liechtenstein (or Luxembourg, I get confused between the two). In my experience, almost always once the complaint is lodged with the FOS, Paypal drop matters and waive the balance.

 

I seriously recommend against using Paypal or eBay. The amount of problems I have had or heard of others having is beyond what would normally happen with a typical company and very scary.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

Good Luck!

[skonk]

I use ebay, but only as a buyer, because I've read that much stuff, not only on this site, about seller horror stories getting ripped off and paypal/ebay not backing you up. The way the run their system, anyone can buy something from ebay, say it's not turned up, file a dispute and paypal find it on your favour. The genuine sellers are getting ripped off way too much.

[legalpickle]

I use ebay, but only as a buyer, because I've read that much stuff, not only on this site, about seller horror stories getting ripped off and paypal/ebay not backing you up. The way the run their system, anyone can buy something from ebay, say it's not turned up, file a dispute and paypal find it on your favour. The genuine sellers are getting ripped off way too much.

I hate to disappoint you but buyers have also been ripped off numerous times by eBay & Paypal.

[skonk]

Oh, I'm not disappointed, I know that as well! Been ripped of myself, but got the cash back through the dispute system. It just seems to be sellers are more likely to get made to hand cash back, than buyers do.

[legalpickle]

Oh, I'm not disappointed, I know that as well! Been ripped of myself, but got the cash back through the dispute system. It just seems to be sellers are more likely to get made to hand cash back, than buyers do.

I disagree. From my extensive knowledge & experience with eBay & Paypal, and helping many people solve problems with them, I'd say it's 50-50.

[skonk]

Really? I'm only speaking from my own experiences and from what I've read. I suppose I've only read more about sellers cases though. Didn't actually realise the figures are more like what you say. It does put you off using ebay half of the time though. Mind you, I only buy clothes from the ebay in the USA. Not only are they cheaper, but better quality and cater for people who don't have a size 32 waist and dress like adam and the ants!

[pldsmr]

pldsmr , Help with Paypal, please.

Please HELP me someone

 

I've been screwed by Pay Pal... I sold my car on Ebay for 500.00 in January for it to come back and haunt me...

The buyer out of the blue has done a 'chargeback' saying it was unothorized Pay Pal has returned the buyers funds and i'm left with a deficit - 500.00 in my Pay Pal account and no car, where is the car?

 

Thank you, I shall take you advise.... I have spoke to the police and apparently case was closed because Pay Pal hadn't sent them the information they requested. Lucky for me I was able to provide all information they requested and they are now looking in to the case. But unfortunatly they are saying it looks as if it is a civil dispute........

All advise would be appreciated Thank you

[pldsmr]

Thank you legalpickle have forwarded you a draft..... look forward to youre responce.

[legalpickle]

Thank you legalpickle have forwarded you a draft..... look forward to youre responce.

And I have responded that under CAG rules advice by PM is forbidden, so post the draft here - deleting (or putting 'xxxxxx' in replacement of) all confidential information, including usernames & references (you included at least one reference in the PM to me which I have now deleted).

[buzby]

Paypal are in the clear - it was a fraudulent sale and they have no option but to reverse the transaction. However, I have to ask, since the buyer would have to have completed the V5C, to allow you to forward it to the DVLA, did alarm bells not ring when the names didn't match?

 

What identity documents did you see from the buyer? Did the email address match?

Edited August 2, 2009 by buzby

[legalpickle]

Paypal are in the clear - it was a fraudulent sale and they have no option but to reverse the transaction. However, I have to ask, since the buyer would have to have completed the V5C, to allow you to forward it to the DVLA, did alarm bells not ring when the names didn't match?

 

What identity documents did you see from the buyer? Did the email address match?

I wouldn't bet that Paypal are in the clear and in my experience with Paypal even if they're in the clear completely when it comes to the FOS they refund immediately. It's definitely worth a short.

[buzby]

Most of the cases of reversal through fraud wll inevitably not leave them in the lurch. This is no different to you (say) recieving £500 in colour phtocopied banknotes and when you pay the money in, are told - sorry, these are counterfiet, you should be more careful.

 

I agree that there is nothing to lose, but not to build up any hopes. There is a joint responsibility here - the the OP took a cavalier approach and relied on PayPal, then that bubble will be burst.

 

I've just bought a bike on eBay for £3000. I mutually arranged with the seller that I would pay him (a) And immediate PayPal payment of £50 to confirm my goodwill whilst I arranged travel (200 miles) and finding. I then met him, paying him the balance equally split into a Bankers Draft and Cash. He agreed this was sensible - even though he got a pile of Scottish £50's. Everyone has to be careful - but as fraud has been confirmed, PP will have been within their rights, as a most other banks who operate merchant accounts for accepting credit cards.

[legalpickle]

Most of the cases of reversal through fraud wll inevitably not leave them in the lurch. This is no different to you (say) recieving £500 in colour phtocopied banknotes and when you pay the money in, are told - sorry, these are counterfiet, you should be more careful.

 

I agree that there is nothing to lose, but not to build up any hopes. There is a joint responsibility here - the the OP took a cavalier approach and relied on PayPal, then that bubble will be burst.

 

I've just bought a bike on eBay for £3000. I mutually arranged with the seller that I would pay him (a) And immediate PayPal payment of £50 to confirm my goodwill whilst I arranged travel (200 miles) and finding. I then met him, paying him the balance equally split into a Bankers Draft and Cash. He agreed this was sensible - even though he got a pile of Scottish £50's. Everyone has to be careful - but as fraud has been confirmed, PP will have been within their rights, as a most other banks who operate merchant accounts for accepting credit cards.

In my experience this isn't the case, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing.

 

pldsmr: Where's the draft letter?

[buzby]

Well, I'll be equally blunt. Put up or shut up.

 

I am not aware of any 'win' against Paypal where fraud has been a primary reason for the reversal. Since you appear to think otherwise, provide some information on how they were forced to recompense a seller after an appeal or court action. Fraudulent transactions are the silver bullet that provide financial transactions with the ability NOT to be victim of a [problem],

 

Alternatively, are you saying that someone who has fake notes can successfully sue the Bank of England for their full value and make them responsible for the counterfeits?

[legalpickle]

Well, I'll be equally blunt. Put up or shut up.

 

I am not aware of any 'win' against Paypal where fraud has been a primary reason for the reversal. Since you appear to think otherwise, provide some information on how they were forced to recompense a seller after an appeal or court action. Fraudulent transactions are the silver bullet that provide financial transactions with the ability NOT to be victim of a [problem],

 

Alternatively, are you saying that someone who has fake notes can successfully sue the Bank of England for their full value and make them responsible for the counterfeits?

There is a very big difference between the two!

 

Firstly, I never said that Paypal has been forced to refund, only that once complaints have been lodged with the FOS they have offered to do so, which is normally the case as soon as a complaint is lodged with the FOS, most likely because they don't want their practices to be investigated. I have also never mentioned court action or an appeal.

 

I am aware of, or have been involved in, over 100 cases against Paypal which have been lodged with the FOS. In EVERY SINGLE ONE of them, as soon as Paypal have been notified of the complaint being lodged with the FOS, by the FOS, they have settled in the complainant's favour!

 

Secondly, it is not clear that it was fraud in this case. Without the evidence being submitted to the OP, it is unfair for Paypal to assume that it is fraud.

 

If it were to go to court, substantial evidence would have to be lodged by Paypal in support of their case. In addition, as I have said above, court proceedings against Paypal are not simple because the contract is not with a company registered in the UK. They are covered by the FOS under voluntary jurisdiction, whereby they have agreed to submit to the jurisdiction of the FOS.

 

You are immediately assuming things were said by me that were not said. Maybe if you read my posts thoroughly, before you posted, you would not misrepresent & misinterpret what was said.

 

Of course, nothing is ever guaranteed to happen. All my advice and statements are based on prior experience.

[pldsmr]

please find draft below:

On the 29th January 2009 I sold my vehicle on Ebay transaction no:xxxxxxxxxxxxxfor the sum of 482. 80 GBP after deductions. Unfortunately the buyer did not contact me prior to the transfer of his funds to my Paypal account. Obviously I was not expecting anyone to pay for the vehicle until they had seen it, I was expecting cash on sale but this was not the case unfortunately for me.

 

 

The buyer collected the vehicle on the 31st January 2009. The registration documents were signed by the buyer and I forward to DVLA. User agreement states buyer protection 'Proof of transaction'. Which can be obtained via DVLA.

 

 

On the 28th May 2009 I received an email regarding this transaction stating that the buyer had requested a 'chargeback' 4 months down the line. The buyer claimed that he did not authorize the transaction.

Buyer transaction ID: xxxxxxxx

Buyer : xxxxxxx

Buyer email:xxxxxxxx

Transaction date:xxxxxxxxx

 

 

I requested manual contact information for the buyer from Ebay on the 31st May 2009. On numerous occasions I tried to contact the buyer, but this was of no avail. Why didn't the seller not communicate with me in this dispute? Before he escalated it.

 

 

The decision was made to reverse the payment back to the buyer. This leaves me in negative balance and no vehicle. Not only have I been defrauded by the buyer, I feel that Paypal has not protected me as a seller and has also defrauded me by 519.89 GBP.

 

 

I have placed a report to the metropolitan police, crime reference no: xxxxxxxxxxx for your reference allowing them to gain entry in to my account. As from 01st August 2009 the metropolitan police are still waiting information from you regarding this case?

 

 

If I do not receive a response from you within 21 days, clearing my negative balance I will have no option but to contact the Financial Ombudsman.

 

 

Look forward to your response in this matter of urgency

[buzby]

I think we're on the same page - it was the OP that stated it was a fraudulent transaction in message # 1, and if the supposed purchaser has been misrepresented, then the Seller has to satisfy himself that the buyer is who he says he is, this responsibility remains, as does the paperwork side

 

Paypal is always going yo hack one or other off because their decision in supporting one will always hack off another! As a buyer, they have in 8 cases (in 10 years) helped me get my money back or goods recieved in every case, so providing you play by their rules, there are no real issues. Users have to share the responsibility and act accordingly - they cannot be reckless and expect PP to take up the slack for their error. Sorry if you felt slighted!

[pldsmr]

Paypal are in the clear - it was a fraudulent sale and they have no option but to reverse the transaction. However, I have to ask, since the buyer would have to have completed the V5C, to allow you to forward it to the DVLA, did alarm bells not ring when the names didn't match?

 

What identity documents did you see from the buyer? Did the email address match?

 

 

Yes alarm bells did ring when the buyer collected, all he was eager in was driving the vehicle away, there was nothing i could do about it as i'd already excepted payment and transfered it.

 

I had a phone call from buyer to say his brother was collecting as he lives Local. All identification added up.:-|

[pldsmr]

Well, I'll be equally blunt. Put up or shut up.

 

I am not aware of any 'win' against Paypal where fraud has been a primary reason for the reversal. Since you appear to think otherwise, provide some information on how they were forced to recompense a seller after an appeal or court action. Fraudulent transactions are the silver bullet that provide financial transactions with the ability NOT to be victim of a [problem],

 

Alternatively, are you saying that someone who has fake notes can successfully sue the Bank of England for their full value and make them responsible for the counterfeits?

 

I'm not one of those people that put up and shut up... If I'm in the right. There is a loop hole for everythng and i will find it how ever long it takes me. I'm not about to pay any funds back I'm not the criminal...

[pldsmr]

Oh, I'm not disappointed, I know that as well! Been ripped of myself, but got the cash back through the dispute system. It just seems to be sellers are more likely to get made to hand cash back, than buyers do.

 

This definitely seems the case by what I've been reading. It's a real eye opener.....