PCN 05 - PARKED AFTER the expiry of paid for time

[wiosna30]

Hi

 

Today I was 4 min late back to my car as I was trying to sort something out in the bank that took longer than expected.

My ticket was until 12:24 and my penalty charge notice is showing 12:27, the difference is 3 MINUTES.

I am sure that Council have a policy of waiting a few minutes (5 or 10 min) however to allow for any differences between the clock on the machine and my watch. What kind of letter should I send? I need some instructions or template.

 

Many thanks

 

[green_and_mean]

Hi

 

Today I was 4 min late back to my car as I was trying to sort something out in the bank that took longer than expected. My ticket was until 12:24 and my penalty charge notice is showing 12:27, the difference is 3 MINUTES. I am sure that Council have a policy of waiting a few minutes (5 or 10 min) however to allow for any differences between the clock on the machine and my watch. What kind of letter should I send? I need some instructions or template.

 

Many thanks

 

 

How about.....

 

Dear Sir

Today I was 4 min late back to my car as I was trying to sort something out in the bank that took longer than expected. My ticket was until 12:24 and my penalty charge notice is showing 12:27, the difference is 3 MINUTES. I am sure that Council have a policy of waiting a few minutes (5 or 10 min) however to allow for any differences between the clock on the machine and my watch. I would therefore request my PCN cancelled.

[wiosna30]

Many thanks for help, I hope that Council will cancell it:)

[wiosna30]

Hi,

 

my letter:

 

"On 1st of August 2009 (Today) I used an on-street pay & display bay and purchased a ticket for the duration. I checked the return time on the ticket and endeavoured to make sure I was back in time. I was a little later than expected but nonetheless arrived back at the car right on 12:22, according to my watch.

 

 

My ticket was until 12:24 and my penalty charge notice is showing 12:27, the difference is 3 MINUTES. I am sure that Council have a policy of waiting a few minutes (5 or 10 min) however to allow for any differences between the clock on the machine and my watch.

 

 

I was dismayed to see a parking attendant in the process of issuing a PCN. It transpires that there was a very small disagreement between my watch and the clock on the ticket machine. I was at the very most two minutes behind schedule.

 

Whilst I appreciate that technically I overstayed, I would like to respectfully ask that on this occasion you cancel the PCN. I had no intention of staying beyond my entitlement and was genuinely surprised to find that I had - by the smallest fraction.

 

I would be most grateful if you would give this your consideration. I support the existence of parking controls generally and am not someone who would seek to gain advantage by not paying for a ticket.

 

 

 

I would be grateful if you would confirm receipt of this letter within 7 days, and request that should you disagree, you must inform me in writing no less that 14 days before commencing any action relating to the alleged offence.

 

I look forward to hearing from you."

 

RECEIVED TODAY:

 

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) which was recently received at this office.

 

The PCN was issued because you were parked at a pay & display bay after the expiry of paid for time. A PCN can be issued as soon as time expires as there is no grace period offered.

 

I have taken the time to investigate the PCN issued to your vehicle and have also given my full consideration to the points which you have raised in your e-mail.

 

I note that you have stated that you checked your watch upon your return to your vehicle, noting the time to be 12:22. At this point, you have stated that you saw a Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) issuing a PCN to your vehicle.

 

I have taken the time to review the pocket book notes made by the CEO and noted that the CEO checked the time of their hand held computer against the pay and display machine where you purchased your ticket from. At this point, both appliances were showing the same time, that of 12:25.

 

At 12:27, the CEO has then identified your vehicle and, as the pay and display ticket which you had purchased had expired by 3 minutes, the PCN was issued.

 

Whilst I have given my full consideration to the points which you have raised in your letter, and acknowledge your statement that your late return was not deliberate, but was due to a discrepancy between your watch and the pay and display machine, I am satisfied that the contravention did occur and the PCN was correctly issued. I have therefore decided to uphold the penalty charge on this occasion.

As the PCN was issued correctly, payment is now due. I have decided that we can accept the discounted amount of £40.00 provided we receive that before 1 September 2009. Please bear in mind that on that date the charge will increase to £80.00.

 

If you wish to continue to contest the matter, the next stage is that a Notice to Owner will be sent to the person responsible for the penalty charge. This is a necessary legal step and further correspondence will only delay this process.

 

I am afraid you are unlikely to get a further opportunity to make discounted payment. However, the Notice to Owner will establish liability for the Penalty Charge Notice and the grounds under which representations may be made. If representations are made at this stage and they are rejected, there will be the right of appeal to the independent adjudicator at the Parking & Traffic Appeals Service.

 

You can make a credit or debit card payment on - 020 7527 2000 - at any time. You can also pay on line at Islington Council. If you prefer to pay by cheque, please make it payable to LB Islington and send it to the above address. Please write the PCN number on the back of the cheque. You may also send postal orders (quoting the PCN number).

 

If you wish to comment on my decision or on any aspect of the service you have received from us, please email [email protected], with ‘Feedback’ in the subject header. Alternatively you can write to us at the address below.

 

 

Yours sincerery..."

 

What can i do now? only 3 minutes:-?

[Jamberson]

You've not got much choice now. If you persist with the appeal you'll forfeit the discount, and to be honest your chances of winning are small.

 

This first appeal was an informal one where the council could exercise discretion, but the next one would be a formal one and would need more robust grounds. As there is no policy of waiting 5 minutes as you suggest, I don't see a strong case for you to make. You were late - you got caught.

 

If it were me I think I'd pay the discount and get rid of it. Sorry, not the good news you were hoping for, but better than ending up with double the cost.

[natalie]

Contact your MP, I had a similar situation, and my MP sorted it out for me.

 

Alternatively you could contact the local government ombudsman

 

Local Government Ombudsman • Home

[wiosna30]

Many thanks, I think the best way is pay discounted amount and try be on time

 

Many thnanks

[green_and_mean]

There letter is a bit dubious since he allegedy checked the machine at 12.25 noted this in his pocket book then found your car and then issued a PCN all within 2 minutes.

[wiosna30]

:?:Hi Green and mean

 

looks like but I am sure that at first he went to the car and seeing that I have only a few minutes started writing PCN first. I‘d like to sent letter to my MP but I will need help with them. I don’t know how to start

[Jamberson]

What do you want your MP to do?

[green_and_mean]

I have to say I think issuing without any grace period is being over zealous. Around where I live it can easily cost £15 to park for a morning so to get a £60 PCN for being 1 minute late is ridiculous especially if you come back 10 mins early there is no refund. Having said that if you have publicised grace periods such as 5 mins drivers tend to factor that in and come back late to get an extra 5 mins parking then get just as annoyed for getting a PCN on 6 mins as they seem to think they are only a minute late, you just can't win.

[natalie]

Whenever I contact my MP, i give the office a ring, speak to one of the staff so they are aware of the situation, and then send them an email with all the specifics on it.

 

But if you want to do it by mail how about this;

 

Dear Mr MP

 

As one of your constituents I require your assistance with a problem I am having with xxx borough council.

 

On DATE I parked in CARPARK NAME and purchased a ticket. I returned to my vehicle within the allotted time and was surprised to discover a Traffic Warden issuing a Parking Charge Notice. On inspection I discovered the PCN was issued because I was 3 minutes late back to the vehicle. Please find enclosed a photocopy of both the parking ticket and the PCN for your perusal.

 

I'm sure you can appreciate how frustrating this is, especially as the council have refused to reconsider the PCN. I have enclosed correspondence recieved from NAME ON THE LETTER.

 

I look forward to your advice on this matter.

 

Yours sincerely

[crem]

I returned to my vehicle within the allotted time and was surprised to discover a Traffic Warden issuing a Parking Charge Notice. On inspection I discovered the PCN was issued because I was 3 minutes late back to the vehicle.

 

Both the highlighted sentences cannot be true! Should the first sentence not read: I believed I returned to my vehicle within the allotted time.?

[green_and_mean]

Both the highlighted sentences cannot be true! Should the first sentence not read: I believed I returned to my vehicle within the allotted time.?

 

Not really they could have got back 20 mins early and still got a PCN for being 3 mins late, it may have been issued incorrectly as the OP is saying is the case.

[crem]

Not really they could have got back 20 mins early and still got a PCN for being 3 mins late, it may have been issued incorrectly as the OP is saying is the case.

 

the I would change the second sentence to be "still got a PCN for allegedly being 3 minutes late."

[natalie]

Both sentences can be true... according to the OP's watch he was back in time, however, the time on the PCN was 3 minutes after the time on the parking ticket.

 

I can be on time for an appointment by my watch, yet 5 minutes late by my colleague's, which is the point the OP is trying to make. 3 minutes is such a short amount of time that the PCN should be cancelled because it doesnt allow for lack of synchronisation.

[crem]

hence stating "he believed he was back on time" and "was allegedly 3 minutes late on return".

[StrawDog]

It could be worthwhile going back to the scene of this horrendous crime armed with a watch that is known to be accurate to the split second & comparing it with the clock display on the machine.

 

Earlier today I did just that (sad I know) with a pay & display machine at a Council car park near to where I live. The machine digital clock display was in hours & minutes only.

 

Result

 

Machine clock showing a time of 1517 hrs

Actual & totally accurate time : 1518.40 hrs

 

de minimis non curat lex

'The law does not concern itself with trifles'

So what's so special about Islington Council?

[wiosna30]

Many thanks, I am going to send email now,

It’s my second chance

[lamma]

and surely "substantial compliance" works both ways

[wiosna30]

Hi,

 

I need advice and help again – Template letter to my council.

 

 

Yesterday I have received the notice that my PCN from 4th of September HAS NOT BEEN PAID. The problem is that I didn’t know that pcn has been issued on this day; I didn’t find any tickets on my window screen. Payment of 120.00 is now due

 

 

I d like to send the letter telling that I didn’t receive – find any PCN, I need The picture of the car showing that I have the ticket on it and correct address because their put only Rhodes estate and time what is not telling me anything.

 

Will be great if someone can help me with letter to Council

 

Many thanks

[green_and_mean]

Hi,

 

I need advice and help again – Template letter to my council.

 

 

Yesterday I have received the notice that my PCN from 4th of September HAS NOT BEEN PAID. The problem is that I didn’t know that pcn has been issued on this day; I didn’t find any tickets on my window screen. Payment of 120.00 is now due

 

 

I d like to send the letter telling that I didn’t receive – find any PCN, I need The picture of the car showing that I have the ticket on it and correct address because their put only Rhodes estate and time what is not telling me anything.

 

Will be great if someone can help me with letter to Council

 

Many thanks

 

Just write what you wrote here.