Help needed with BoS credit card agreement

[Bazooka Boo]

IMHO, it looks like an application form:confused:, there are no interest rates less for the one in Part 2 Account Details, it refers to an overdraft also, which doesn't come under the CCA.

 

Did you request a CCA or a SAR?

 

On page 1of3 at the bottom right corner it states Pref Aug 01, then on the other two pages it refers to PrefTC Feb 01:confused:

 

However some one else with more knowledge on these may be able to give you better advice, I'm confused and need to go back and re-read through the thread to get back on track:rolleyes:

[mooiismum]

I'd noticed that and had mentioned it to OH & also the date stamp of 23rd July 2002? Pages 2 and 3 are the conditions of use and I believe that Feb 01 is the print date. The first page is the actual preference account details which carry the purported signatures of OH & rep of Capital Bank. You are correct that it mentions an overdraft limit, I also pointed that out to OH, with no mention of CCA anywhere. I'm not entirely sure of the significance of this? Need enlightening please.

rgds

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

Was it a CCA request you sent them?

 

The more I read it the more it confuses me, it looks like they have cobbled together two sepearte agreements a CC agreement and an overdraft agreement.

 

The scan with the 'preference account' refers to an overdraft, these do not come under the remit of a CCA.

 

The next two scans refer to a CC which is why the dates previously mentioned at the bottom right of the pages differ.

 

And as the date stamp differs greatly from when your OH applied for the account, IMHO I would send them the failure to provide letter: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Then wait and see what they come back with.

To my somewhat uneducated eye, I would certainly say that this is not an enforceable agreement under the CCA, but I am hoping that someone else will be able to back that up..

[mooiismum]

Ok here's the story, OH made an application for HP credit, on the application form was a tick box for a CC to be given alongside the loan, he never actually signed a CCA agreement, just for HP. This was called a Preference 1 account, the CC was called a Preference 2 account. On the Pref 1 acc. it clearly shows the amount to be paid every mnth and the duration etc. This HP agreement was paid off ages ago, but OH continued to use the CC(Pref.2 acc.) A letter was sent by RD asking for a copy of the CCA and these were the documents they sent him back Home - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting this should show both accounts (hopefully). I thank you for taking time and patience to give advise on this, you don't know how grateful I am.

rgds

MM

Edited September 1, 2009 by mooiismum
more info added

[Bazooka Boo]

Ok so the Pref1 acct is all paid for and we don't need to worry about that..yeah?

 

So the Pref2 acct is the CC and that is the one you need clarification on...yeah?

 

Well again looking at the pref2 scans, they have two separate dates on the bottom right hand corner, the first two state Feb01 and the last one page 1 of 3 states Aug 01, plus the date stamp is Jul 03, is this when the CC account was opened? Or were they both opened on the same date?

 

Have you asked Shadow to have a look?

Personally I don't think they are enforceable, due to the anomaly of the date stamp and the actual date the CC was taken out, if both accounts were opened at the same time?

[mooiismum]

Yes please. Pref 2 docs are the focus. For information I think that the printed dates indicate the print version of the individual forms rather than a date of execution.? The date of signature and agreement (23 Jul 2002) would be the date the card was agreed. I think the important doc is page 1 as this seems to contain any relevent information including signatures (although OH's signature is on the form he did not date it). The only other point is that the facility seems to be an overdraft and none of the docs mentions CCA regulations, does this have any significance.?

Just so we are absoleutly clear two cards were issued to OH under seperate accounts. Hence Pref 1 and Pref 2, they are seperate issues(he's just told me this - aarrgh!)

MM

Edited September 2, 2009 by mooiismum
info added

[Bazooka Boo]

OK will ask Shadow to take another look, but the way I see it, is that the pref2 account was taken out on the 23rd Jul 02, and a Credit Card was issued for this account??

 

Your OH sent them a CCA request and this is what they have replied with for this account??

 

I will try and get someone to give a second opinion but I don't think this is any where near enforceable..

[mooiismum]

OK will ask Shadow to take another look, but the way I see it, is that the pref2 account was taken out on the 23rd Jul 02, and a Credit Card was issued for this account??

 

Your OH sent them a CCA request and this is what they have replied with for this account??

 

I will try and get someone to give a second opinion but I don't think this is any where near enforceable..

 

All details as you have outlined are correct.

 

MM

[mooiismum]

All details as you have outlined are correct.

 

MM

Can anyone give advice on this post, Urgent advice is needed please.

 

MM

[the_shadow]

Ok here's the story, OH made an application for HP credit, on the application form was a tick box for a CC to be given alongside the loan, he never actually signed a CCA agreement, just for HP. This was called a Preference 1 account, the CC was called a Preference 2 account. On the Pref 1 acc. it clearly shows the amount to be paid every mnth and the duration etc. This HP agreement was paid off ages ago, but OH continued to use the CC(Pref.2 acc.) A letter was sent by RD asking for a copy of the CCA and these were the documents they sent him back Home - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting this should show both accounts (hopefully). I thank you for taking time and patience to give advise on this, you don't know how grateful I am.

rgds

MM

 

I've just taken another look, the Pref2 document (front) mentions about having to stay in overdraft limit (is this limit the same as the credit card limit?) nothing about a CC, the page's they've sent as the terms and conditions and claim to be the otherside I assume mention the card as being a cheque guarentee card, still nothing credit card related.. and as everybody has spotted, nothing about being under CCA1974 which as I understand it all credit cards are required to be regulated by. I would say they havent complied with the s78 request as this document is clearly not an agreement for a credit card. It is an overdraft facility agreement possibly at most.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Can anyone give advice on this post, Urgent advice is needed please.

 

MM

 

If you need site team advice, then hit the warning triangle on the left hand side and request it.

 

S.

[Bazooka Boo]

Thanks Shadow for taking another look, MM send them the account in dispute letter as they have failed to supply the correct details for the account.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Again send it recorded, and wait and see what they come back with, if anything!

[mooiismum]

I've just taken another look, the Pref2 document (front) mentions about having to stay in overdraft limit (is this limit the same as the credit card limit?) nothing about a CC, the page's they've sent as the terms and conditions and claim to be the otherside I assume mention the card as being a cheque guarentee card, still nothing credit card related.. and as everybody has spotted, nothing about being under CCA1974 which as I understand it all credit cards are required to be regulated by. I would say they havent complied with the s78 request as this document is clearly not an agreement for a credit card. It is an overdraft facility agreement possibly at most.

 

S.

 

I'll ask OH about the credit limit when he gets back home from work, so I'll come back on later, about 7pm, if that's ok?

rgds

MM

[mooiismum]

OH says that the facility has always a credit card arrangement whereas an overdraft implies OH has a bank account with B of S which he doesn't. The "overdraft" amount as mentioned on the form isn't the amount of credit he's been given. The original amount (which he cant remember) has been increased by them without him asking or signing for it as he remembers.

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

Just send them the account in dispute letter, and see what they come back with.

[mooiismum]

Thanks OH will send them the account in dispute letter, including a letter relating to the OFT guidelines on collections and a SAR. That should keep them busy for a few days. This alleged debt is mainly

charges and interest now anyway. Will keep you up to date with any further crapo-pondence from them and many thanks.

 

rgds

MM & MM'sOH

[the_shadow]

Just send them the account in dispute letter, and see what they come back with.

 

Yep agree with this, it was only on 2nd looking that it clicked that nothing on that form suggests a credit card agreement.

 

Well done boo!

 

S.

[mooiismum]

You had mentioned it Shadow, in a previous post, but didn't realise the significance of what was being said. We are being to understand a bit more now. All thanks go to both you and Boo in assisting us with this matter.

 

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

it was only on 2nd looking that it clicked that nothing on that form suggests a credit card agreement.

Well done boo!

S.

 

Thank you Shadow for double checking for me

[mooiismum]

Thank you both for re-confirming this, as previously said, Shadow had mentioned it in an earlier post, as a moot point, but we didn't understand the significance being new to all this, both myself and OH can't thank you enough for taking the time to look again. Will post again when we have the next developement. All this advice is greatly appreciated. hope you both have a good weekend.

MM & MM'sOH

[mooiismum]

HBOS have served OH with claim form at Northampton County Court

Requested copies of docs under CPR31.16, letter received saying they think they are legible and in order. Really panicking now & feels he should contact lender to arrange reduced payment schedule as he can't cope with court action. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

Can you scan and post it on here so people can have a look?

Remove all Identifying names, addresses, bar codes etc, IMHO if they intend to go to court with the documents they have provided you, it will be laughed out!

 

If he wants to make any payment, then I would only suggest making the minimum payment of £1 a month, don't ring them to ask them if they will accept it as they won't, they are far too greedy and will want at least a couple of zero's added to it.

 

Scan and post what you received, it might just be another threatogramme, either way as I have said if they do go to court, there is nothing to be afraid of, it should be welcomed, as if their paperwork is in the order they have sent to you it will be laughed out!

 

 

Boo;-)

[mooiismum]

Thank you for your fast response Boo, your words of wisdom always calm the situation.

Here's the link to HBOS01 -http://tinypic.com/1aqtz/4

OH has noticed that under the Particulars of Claim section they have quoted "By an agreement dated 3/12/1996 the defendant has an account number XXXXX with the claimant" the copies of the agreement sent by HBOS show a date stamp of 23rd July 2002. Would this have any bearing on the validity of their claim please?

 

Just noticed that under the Particulars of Claim section there is a declaration relating to the particulars which requires a signature to confirm the facts are correct , this is a printed name - is this legal??

 

MM

Edited September 12, 2009 by mooiismum
Information added

[Bazooka Boo]

Can't get the link to work:confused:

 

Have they received the account in dispute letter??

 

If they have and they are still trying to enforce legal action, then IMHO this would be a complete defence in court, they have failed to produce any of the relevant documents legally requested, therefore leaving you with no alternative but to place the account in dispute.

 

They should not be enforcing any legal action whilst the account is in dispute.

I would make an immediate complaint to the Financial Ombudsman

And a further complaint to the OFT: The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

As for all the anomalies on the form they sent, just make a note of them and get all of your files/letters in order, court is nothing to be scared of, you'll turn up their (possibly) with all your documents in order and they will be typing theirs out still, the judge will have a field day and throw it out!

 

Have you spoken with your local CAB at all?Citizens Advice - the charity for your community

 

If they are incompetent enough to take this to court, then you should welcome it. The evidence you have posted on here so far suggests you will walk out of their giving them the two fingured salute.

[mooiismum]

Can't get the link to work:confused:

 

Have they received the account in dispute letter??

 

If they have and they are still trying to enforce legal action, then IMHO this would be a complete defence in court, they have failed to produce any of the relevant documents legally requested, therefore leaving you with no alternative but to place the account in dispute.

 

They should not be enforcing any legal action whilst the account is in dispute.

I would make an immediate complaint to the Financial Ombudsman

And a further complaint to the OFT: The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

As for all the anomalies on the form they sent, just make a note of them and get all of your files/letters in order, court is nothing to be scared of, you'll turn up their (possibly) with all your documents in order and they will be typing theirs out still, the judge will have a field day and throw it out!

 

Have you spoken with your local CAB at all?Citizens Advice - the charity for your community

 

If they are incompetent enough to take this to court, then you should welcome it. The evidence you have posted on here so far suggests you will walk out of their giving them the two fingured salute.

 

HI Boo, Thanks for responding.

 

First please try the link again, I put an extra letter in the link box (me n my dyslexic fingers). Bank of Scotland received the account in dispute letter sent by recorded delivery, but didn't sign for it and no response as yet.

OH is considering completing the defence and counterclaim section because of the anomalies as to dates. Do you think this is wise????? What route would you take????? (Never done anything like this - ever!)

 

As for CAB haven't been able to get them to make an appointment on the phone as the line is always busy, and OH is only just mobile again after his biopsy.

 

As for the other info regarding the Financial Ombudsman and OFT he'll get on to that straightaway and I'll be back on the phone on Monday trying to make an appointment with CAB. (They are always totally inundated in this neck of the woods)

 

MM & MM'sOH