Help needed with BoS credit card agreement

[mooiismum]

I'm the OH of MM. Fist I want to say how much I've appreciated all the help already given don't know how I'd have coped without it. However I am in desperate need of further information. I've received a Notice of Intended Court Action from B.O & S DAC's for RBS. I previously requested a signed copy of the original agreement and was sent a document which appears to be a copy of the original application form & would appreciate any guidance as to whether this constitutes an actual enforecable agreement and any key phrases to look for as to which document it is. I'm really worried about this. Thanking you in anticipation MM's really worried OH.

[joemay]

Can you scan & post the application form (removing any identifiable info) that way ppl will be able to tell you whether its enforceable or not.

[the_shadow]

I'm the OH of MM. Fist I want to say how much I've appreciated all the help already given don't know how I'd have coped without it. However I am in desperate need of further information. I've received a Notice of Intended Court Action from B.O & S DAC's for RBS. I previously requested a signed copy of the original agreement and was sent a document which appears to be a copy of the original application form & would appreciate any guidance as to whether this constitutes an actual enforecable agreement and any key phrases to look for as to which document it is. I'm really worried about this. Thanking you in anticipation MM's really worried OH.

 

As well as posting up the application/agreement can you advise how old this debt is from, roughly!

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Thank u for your fast responses. How do I post it please, I'm a bit thick on post & paste. The debt is roughly about 14 years old. He took the CC out about 1995.

MM

[mooiismum]

It's not scanning very well it's not very good quality copy they've sent, Looks more like sanscrip now!!! MM

[the_shadow]

Ok couple of sites let you host the pics... you need to ensure you edit out any personal information and then upload to either of these sites.

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

 

Once youve hosted the pics/scans on one of these sites you need to post the URL(the web address of the image) into a message on here. you do that by copying the URL into the message box and then clicking on the icon in the editor window that looks like a paperclip under the earth, its just below the smiley

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Thanks S I'm trying to get it looking slightly legible. The CC is so old (14 years) it probably is in sanscrip

[the_shadow]

Thanks S I'm trying to get it looking slightly legible. The CC is so old (14 years) it probably is in sanscrip

 

and more important probably not enforceable

 

If its not legible and you cant read the prescribed terms if they are even on there then its not enforceable.

 

S.

[mooiismum]

and more important probably not enforceable

 

If its not legible and you cant read the prescribed terms if they are even on there then its not enforceable.

 

S.

 

They have overlaid the terms with a copy of the account details which aren't in my OH's writing, plus the date after his signature isn't how he writes numbers too and apparently, the dates from him signing it, posting it and them counter signing it is only 1 day! It says in the Schedule before completing this application please refer to the Data Protection Act Statement overleaf.in the Customer Declaration it says I confirm that the information contained in the application is true and accurate and authorise you to make all enquiries necessary to verify the information to enable you to consider this application.

 

When trying to scan onto one of your recommended site, the document becomes completely illegable. Will Keep trying to enhance it though.

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm, scan it using the recommended sites, and just post it, I also have great difficulty making my agreements readable using photobucket, but to be honest if they have sent you documentation which even you are unable to legibly read then it is deemed unenforceable.

 

BOS, which I am assuming you mean, blair oliver and scott, are the 'in house' debt collection agency used by Bank Of Scotland,

 

To be really sure and to be able to give good solid advice, the reply you had for your CCA needs to be scanned and posted on here for others to look at.

 

But, a topic I am very familiar with and well versed in is Statute Barred Debts, 'SO' if you are very very sure that this alleged debt is as old as you say it is, and there has been 'NO' payment or acknowledgement within the "first" 6 years (5 in Scotland) of the account being in default (you not paying or acknowledging 'in writing' that you owe the debt) Then the debt is most definitely Staute Barred, and after sending them the letter stating this they should not continue any legal collection activity!

 

Boo;)

[mooiismum]

MM's OH here. Thanks for your help. I have now loaded copies of all documents onto tinypic for you to peruse and look forward to your opinions. For information there are 2 accounts which i have been paying up until around 3 months ago when circumstances changed. The first card was issued as part of an interest free arrangement involving goods purchased in 1996, the finance being provided by BofS. The second was a straightforward credit card. Here are the links:- Preference account 1 - Album - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting & Preference account 2 - Album - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

MM'sOH

[Bazooka Boo]

Hi, referring to my previous post ref SB debts, has there been a time at all where you didn't pay anything toward this debt?

 

IE; has there been a six year period where you didn't pay anything nor acknowledge the debt?

[mooiismum]

No. I have tried to maintain payments and have paid monies to Blair Oliver and Scott within the last 6 months. MM's OH.

[Bazooka Boo]

Ok not to worry, that counts SB out of the question, the way ahead now is for someone else who knows CCA's and whether yours are enforceable or not.

 

At least you have tried to keep to your payments. That letter they sent telling you that they were now going to seek court action, in my view is them trying to bully you and exploit your lack of knowledge in an attempt to get more money from you.

 

Have you ever come to an agreement with them of how much to pay, or have you just paid them what they have told you to?

 

My apologies if I am already covering ground you have already crossed, but have you, personally, sat down and done an Income & Expenditure (I&E) list, to see exactly what disposable income you do have?

 

Once you do this, you should then divide that up between your creditors, if it only works out a £5 a month payment to some of them, then that's what you pay them.

 

If they are not happy, tell them to take you to court, that way then you will be able to show the judge your I&E list and what you can comfortably afford to pay them each month, and they will just have to live with it!

 

The simple fact that you have been making attempts at paying off this debt massively goes in your favour, it sounds like they have been piling on interest and charges, you could ask them for a 'statement of account', which will be cheaper than a SAR which will cost you a tenner. And that will then show you exactly what they have been adding to your account, and if they have been adding charges, you can claim those back, if they are still adding interest, then you can tell them to stop all interest on the account.

 

Try not to worry, all is not lost, it may take a little while, but it's you back in the driving seat not them!

 

Boo;)

[mooiismum]

Thanks Boo, you've helped tremendously I think with my OH seeing the answers for himself have helped, but how do I bump this thread to get more help (someone to view the documents) please. MM

[Bazooka Boo]

Someone will view them soon enough, photogii is usually quite good with CCA's, but just hold fire for a while...someone will pick up on it soon enough, basically every time you get a reply to your thread it goes straight to the top of all the posts in the relevant section, if you want a quick answer you could always try posting a link to this thread, in the relevant banking section...

For example:Halifax Bank and Bank of Scotland - The Consumer Forums

[mooiismum]

Gee Thanks Boo - you're a star! MM

[mooiismum]

and more important probably not enforceable

 

If its not legible and you cant read the prescribed terms if they are even on there then its not enforceable.

 

S.

I posted the documents hoping to get some advice but the only one who came back to us was Bazooka Boo and no one else. Plus we've had health issues to deal with - OH needs biopsy for suspected cancer so that's weighing heavily on our minds! It's all this stress - don't know if we are coming or going, I'm sure I'll meet myself coming back soon!

No-one has answered any letters we've sent, we just receive threats with doorstep visits from DCA's and court action! I can't cope any longer if things are'nt sorted soon I'm afraid I will leave.

[Bazooka Boo]

No-one has answered any letters we've sent, we just receive threats with doorstep visits from DCA's and court action! I can't cope any longer if things are'nt sorted soon I'm afraid I will leave.

 

In response to their empty threats of a doorstep visit, send the clowns this:Letter used when DCA threatens doorstep visit.

 

Give them the template letter linked below through the letterbox or chained door.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ep-visit-.html

 

Tell them to leave as you have nothing to discuss and all communication must be in writing.

 

Tell them you will call the police if they don't leave immediately.

 

Remain calm and polite at all times.

 

Walk away from the door so the visitor cannot try and talk to you.

 

If they don't leave, call the police to report that you are being harassed and the visitor refuses to leave.

 

And don't worry about them, these threats are computer generated, if there isn't any human input to their computer then it automatically prints of the next threatogramme on the specified time, just shallow empty threats designed to intimidate you and exploit the debtors lack of knowledge and hoping you will buckle and just pay up whatever they tell you too!

 

Postgii may be the best person to ask about CCA's?

[the_shadow]

For some reason I was unsubscribed off this thread... apologies, if I'd seen the recent postings I would have commented

 

Anyway to the matter at hand, replying to MM's PM.

 

I've no idea what a preference account is and I wasnt sure it was even covered by the CCA as the application doesnt show anything until you look at the box in the bottom right hand corner

 

As it stands the preference account 1 doc (This one) appears to be unenforceable unless they can link it with document two (this one)

They "look" like microfiche copies so may not have the originals and the text is very very hard to read, not sure what the copy they have given you is like. You need to read as much of it you can and see if there are inconsistencies between the two... eg. see paragraph 10 overleaf... and yet on the other page there is no para 10 or it relates to something totally different to the implied suggestion on page 1.

 

Preference account 2 looks very enforceable, if signed by both yourself and capital one, all 3 pages are clearly linked (bottom right, page x of 3) and the prescribed terms appear to be there. And in any event I cant see anything that states this account is covered by the CCA1974 act.

 

Did you receive a default notice/termination letter for the first account (premier account1)?

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Thank you Shadow, A preference account referred to a preferred customer and is merely a description of a type of credit card. The first set of docs related to a loan arrangement with repayments over a three year term which ended in 2000 however the preference card was given alongside the loan and OH has continued to use it! Your opinion is greatly appreciated and thanks for your help....... and also to Boo I've printed out a copy of the letter you so kindly pointed me to, just in case they do turn up! We had already sent them one, which seems to have been totally ignored. I'm having a hard time coping with my OH's I didn't know any of this until it had gotten out of control,

[the_shadow]

Hi MM,

 

Did you answer about the default and termination notice for one or possibly both of these accounts?

 

I'm still not convinced the 2nd preference account is covered by the CCA, I've gone back over the three pages and cant see anything that resembles a comment pointing to the CCA....

 

Still a moot point in reality.

 

Right questions over, two ways as I see it:-

 

1) I suggest if you havent yet, getting an appointment with CAB, once you have that appointment send details to whoever is chasing you at this precise moment (BOS, their sols etc) stating you are seeking debt help and require them to cease activity on this account for 30days, you expect them to comply as the industry has agreed with the government for this grace period to allow debtors to get their finances in order. You then ask CAB to intervene and hopefully get agreement for lower payments, you'll need to take an I&E to the meeting for them to work from.

 

 

2) Play hardball back, the first agreement will be down to the judge lottery in my opinion, it looks like they dont have the original, some judges will require the original if you mention it in your defence, others will accept something less than the original The second agreement looks iron clad to me, other than the fact there is no right to cancel the agreement included on the sheet, was it signed off-premises?

 

If you take option 2) bear in mind that at some point you might have to face court, you will still be chased by DCA's and the letter threats will continue, in fact even with option 1 the letters and phone calls will still not probably stop.

 

Please dont think you are alone, if you need help or just someones opinion, feel free to ask. Most of us are going through the same problems, possibly with different DCA's / Creditors but nevertheless the game doesnt differ that much.

 

S.

Edited August 12, 2009 by the_shadow
Removed inappropriate question

[the_shadow]

Ok, was aiming to go to bed but reading this thread again just makes my blood boil :mad:

 

Possibly an option 3) is to complain to everyone and I mean everyone and threaten as much bad press for BOS hounding a sick debtor as possible.

 

Complaints to FOS re: BoS unwillingness to discuss reduced repayments as per the banking code.

 

your MP, BoS a government backed bank persecuting and harassing a debtor who is ill.

 

the chairman of BoS, stating you will be advising the press on how it treats its customers who are not trying to wriggle out of debt but who are genuinely struggling due to circumstances not under their control.

 

S.

[david999]

Sorry to butt in, we have the same problem with bos.

 

I posted the thread and loaded the docs through photobucket but no replys as yet

 

Shadow, could you take a couple of min and look at what bos sent as a cca request, is it enforcable?

 

 

 

here is the link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/214339-bos-cca-reply-please.html

 

thanks

 

David

[Bazooka Boo]

With reference to Shadow's post MM here are a few links that you may like to read, and may help you in your complaint:

Banking Code Standards Board

 

Banking Code Standards Board

 

HELPDESK ENQUIRIES

 

If you have a problem with your financial service provider and would like information on how to complain or need assistance in understanding your rights under the Banking Codes, please contact our Helpdesk.

 

Call 0845 230 9694, or email [email protected]

 

 

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/