Robinson Way CCJ/CO Cap1 card debt - was unable to respond - now want to set aside **LOST** - appealed - **WON** Claim reset - **WON - Case dismissed**

[lilly white]

HANSARD 1803–2005 → 1980s → 1983 → November 1983 → 3 November 1983 → Written Answers (Commons) → TRADE AND INDUSTRY

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

HC Deb 03 November 1983 vol 47 cc434-5W 434W

Mr. John Taylor asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry when he will lay regulations and orders to implement further provisions of the

Consumer Credit Act 1974

; and if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Alexander Fletcher I have today laid regulations to implement all the remaining major provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 together with a draft order to increase certain monetary limits in the Act. With the exception of those monetary limits mentioned in my statement to the House on 25 October 1983 which will come into force at the beginning of 1984, all the remaining provisions will come into force in May 1985. I have proposed the 18-month lead-in period to allow the credit industry time to adjust to the new legal requirements.

Consumers will benefit from new protection over the whole range of credit and hire agreements. Traders will benefit from the rationalisation of the law on credit, some of which is over a century old. Extensive consultation has taken place and I am satisfied that a careful balance has been struck between consumer protection and the need to limit the burdens on the credit industry.

The statutory instruments I have laid are as follows:

 

• S.I. 1983/1552—Consumer Credit (Agreements to enter Prospective Agreements) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1553 — Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1554—Consumer Credit (Payments Arising on Death) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1555 — Consumer Credit (Credit-Token Agreements) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1556 — Consumer Credit (Guarantees and Indemnities) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1557—Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1558 — Consumer Credit (Notice of Cancellation Rights) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1559 — Consumer Credit (Repayment of Credit on Cancellation) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1560 — Consumer Credit (Linked Transactions) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1561 — Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1562 — Consumer Credit (Rebate on Early Settlement) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1564 — Consumer Credit (Settlement Information) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1565 — Consumer Credit (Conduct of Business) (Pawn Records) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1566 — Consumer Credit (Pawn-Receipts) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1567 — Consumer Credit (Loss of Pawn-Receipt) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1568 — Consumer Credit (Realisation of Pawn) Regulations 1983 435
  
• S.I. 1983/1569—Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1570 — Consumer Credit (Running-Account Credit Information) Regulations 1983
  
• Draft Consumer Credit (Increase of Monetary Limits) Order 1983
  

I have also made the following orders:

 

• S.I. 1983/1551 — Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Commencement No. 8) Order 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1571 — Consumer Credit (Increase of Monetary Amounts) Order 1983
  
• S.I. 1983/1572—Sale of Goods Act 1979 (Appointed Day)
  

[RobinWayRobinme]

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/Consumer_Credit_%28Agreements%29_Regs_1983.pdf

 

All amended by 2004 regs. Problem is Reg 2 was, as far as I can see, replaced by 2004 regs and can't seem to work back using the 2004 regs. Reg 2, before being replaced is what I believe I need.

[lilly white]

robin are you saying that the 1983 regs are not in force after 2004 i am confused which is easy

[lilly white]

The Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

 

reg 2 are the same

[RobinWayRobinme]

robin are you saying that the 1983 regs are not in force after 2004 i am confused which is easy

 

I'm confused as well lilly. If you look at the start of reg 2 it states:-

 

"UK Parliament SIs 1980-1989/1983/1551-1600/Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)/[2 Form

and content of regulated consumer credit agreements]"

 

I assume the square brackets relate to SI 1983/1553, which is fine. However after the heading "2 Form and content etc", it starts with the left square bracket [(1) and is closed off at the end of (10)

 

Also (4)© is enclosed by square brackets.

At the end of regs 2 the following is stated:-

 

"Substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 4 (as amended by SI 2004/2619, reg 2(1), (2)).

 

Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof."

 

Its this that is leaving me somewhat confused as it would suggest that reg 2 has been changed effective from 31/05/2005 and there doesn't seem to be anywhere to find the regs pre SI 2004/1482.

 

As you rightly say, the 2004 amendments show reg 2 as being replaced in its entirety. IMHO it would only take some smart axxxd barrister to produce something different and the form and content argument could fail. See my point. or am being a bit slow?

[lilly white]

well i would feel that when you sign or not any agreedment on whatever dated that would be date to look for

 

so before 2004 1983 regs.

 

After 2004 the 2004 regs come into play ets hope this helps

Edited January 11, 2010 by lilly white

[RobinWayRobinme]

well i would feel that when you sign or not any agreedment on whatever dated that would be date to look for

 

so before 2004 1893 regs.

 

After 20004 the 2004 regs come into play ets hope this helps

 

Guess you may have had one of those days lilly

[lilly white]

Guess you may have had one of those days lilly

 

 

Good god robin i have lost the plot, i will amend thank you

[RobinWayRobinme]

General question about SAR made to one of my other creditors MBNA. My SAR has been returned with a request for "a form of positive identification" they have asked for a copy of my driving licence or passport.

 

Any guidance please on how I should respond (didn't get this with capone)? Can they actually ask this? if yes, should I draw a line through the copy of my signature so that they can see it but not reproduce it?

 

Robin

[citizenB]

I dont think they can actually insist on a copy of a passport or driving licence.. after all, what if you dont have either?

 

A utility bill should suffice alternatively you could advise that in the light of indentity theft, you are happy to phone them and go through security questions. remember to blank your phone id by using "141" first if you are using a landline ALthough they have already probably sent you sensitive information so what's their problem. Are they just being obstructive ?.. dont answer that one:rolleyes:

 

How long have they had your request before deciding they require this information ?. They are supposed to ask for any further information in a timely manner.

 

If you are happy to send a copy of your DL or passport (and I wouldnt) then yes, I would obscure the signature.

[RobinWayRobinme]

I dont think they can actually insist on a copy of a passport or driving licence.. after all, what if you dont have either? Agree

 

A utility bill should suffice alternatively you could advise that in the light of indentity theft, you are happy to phone them and go through security questions. remember to blank your phone id by using "141" first if you are using a landline ALthough they have already probably sent you sensitive information so what's their problem. Are they just being obstructive ?.. dont answer that one:rolleyes: Ask a silly question, as they say

 

How long have they had your request before deciding they require this information ?. They are supposed to ask for any further information in a timely manner. Not a timely manner in my book 14/12 - 11/01

 

If you are happy to send a copy of your DL or passport (and I wouldnt) then yes, I would obscure the signature.

 

Thanks for advice citizenB.

Robin

[RobinWayRobinme]

Message for LillyWhite or anyone else who may be able to help. Lilliy kindly brought to my attention 2 pieces of case law Rank Xerox Finance Ltd v Hepple and Walker v SPPL.

 

I have try to find copies of the judgments without any success. Can anyone help to point me in the right direction for these.

R

[citizenB]

Have you looked here ?

 

BAILII - England and Wales Court of Appeal (Civil Division) Decisions

 

Will ask around for you.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Have you looked here ?

 

BAILII - England and Wales Court of Appeal (Civil Division) Decisions

 

Will ask around for you.

 

I have CitizenB. I have subsequently found walker v sppl, but it is cited as SPPL Ltd v Walker [2009] EWCA Civ 1218 and where SPPL won their appeal. Just trying to find Rank Xerox v Hepple now as I understand in this debtor had debt reduced from £5k to £500 as result of 1 defect in agreement in respect of its form and content.

R

[citizenB]

No wonder I couldnt find it.

 

I am having no luck with Rank Xerox, will keep plugging away.

[RobinWayRobinme]

No wonder I couldnt find it.

 

I am having no luck with Rank Xerox, will keep plugging away.

 

This was a case PT referred to in a letter and brought to my attention by Lillywhite. I'm wondering if walker v SPPL as referred to and subsequently appealed was from the County Court and could be Rank Xerox v Hepple may be from county court as well. Basically, what I'm looking for is case law that I can cite for a breach of Consumer Credit Agreement(Regulations) 1983 Reg 2 Form and Content and setting some kind of benchmark for how much a debt can be reduced for a breach of these regs (ie IEA only enforceable by an order of court) and the remedy in CCA 127(1)(ii)

R

[citizenB]

Robin, I have flagged the previous post for PT, if he has referred to the case law then he will more likely know where it can be found

[citizenB]

Have you checked out the case law in the CAG library..

 

The Consumer Forums - Cases

 

There are two pages of links, which then take you on to others.

 

scroll to 18 which deals with consumer credit. But there might be others lurking.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Many thanx CitizenB

[lilly white]

Southern Pacific Personal Loans Ltd v Walker & Anor [2009] EWCA Civ 1218 (12 November 2009)

[lilly white]

robin not good news for the walkers however well worth a read

[RobinWayRobinme]

robin not good news for the walkers however well worth a read

Thanks lilly. Actually I did find it(see my earlier post) agreed bad news for walkers, lost when appealed by creditor

[lilly white]

yes the devil is in the detail however that is where we are looking.

 

regards lilly

[RobinWayRobinme]

Not sure if you are able to help with this one lilly but do you have any knowledge of case law that may be useful in arguing what is acceptable prejudice determining how much a debt has been reduced as a result of it, inter alia, CCA 127(2)

R

[RobinWayRobinme]

yes the devil is in the detail however that is where we are looking.

 

regards lilly

Now you have made me curious:D I'll read through judgment again