Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
        • Like
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
        • Like
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Robinson Way CCJ/CO Cap1 card debt - was unable to respond - now want to set aside **LOST** - appealed - **WON** Claim reset - **WON - Case dismissed**


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4708 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Thanx for that PT, will have a letter off by end of weekend. Can you point me in the right direction of what I should do if they ignore that letter?

 

I have also, using your sticky, made a part 18 request which they have answered and confirmed they do not have the original credit agreement. I asked for info re default notice as it wasn't pleaded in POC. They have referred to the date a default notice was issued, but did not attach a copy to their reply. Am I correct in making a 31.14 request for a copy of the default notice? When I won my appeal, part of the order was for me to file a defence by specified date. Would it be OK to try to agree an extension of the date as to prepare a proper defence I would need them to answer a 2nd part 18 request as the first one was not answered with clarity for one question and I require a copy of Default notice?

 

I know my one question has led to a couple of others, but your help would be greatly appreciated.

R

 

refusal to pay is contempt of court, punishable by imprisonment in extreme cases

 

You could contact your opponents and remind them of this;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 518
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi Robin,

 

Have seen something on here about sending the bailiffs in following the court enforcement process. I believe there is a form to use and a fee to pay (check with the court office) which will be added to the money you are trying to recover. Before taking this step, it will be prudent to check the company's public accounts (if available) before investing any more money chasing them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

atom

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Robin,

 

I see pt has popped in and offered some advice. :)

 

I think you need to send them a reminder letter just slipping in what pt has advised:D

 

Give them just 7 days to obey the court order in respect of your costs.

 

Then I guess you would issue a claim against them for that amount, or perhaps instruct bailiffs.

 

I am still searching for the thread where this has been discussed before.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion...

 

Court orders are worth absolutely nothing outside of court. You can try and make them pay by sending letters etc but if they are ignoring you at this stage there is nothing you can do other than to take it back to court for enforcement.

 

This means more time/expense etc...

 

There are routes to enforce the order via the court but this depends what your favourite flavour is... you can look at a Warrant of Execution if you want to send the bailiffs in... a Garnishee Order if you know their bank account details

 

But the route for enforcement is always through the courts (it's how they make their money ;))

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to PT, CitizenB and VJ for your input on the non payment of costs issue. My understanding is that the remedies open to me are all normal enforcement remedies available when judgment is obtained (what they try to use on us) plus the contempt of court angle.

 

I'll write to other side, pointing out by not complying with order theyb are in contempt of court, giving them 7 days otherwise further action will be taken without any further reference to them.

 

I'll let the forum know the outcome.

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on costs. They arrived today after contempt of court letter. Thanks PT your suggestion worked perfectly.

 

Just like opinion now on next stage. I have followed your guidnace in your sticky PT on Part 18 and 31.14 Requests. From Requests and Replies I have the following:

 

1. They do not have the original executed agreement.

 

2. They only have a copy of the front of the application for credit card/agreement (NO BACK).

 

3. they have provided a copy of T&C's that have no link to agreement in 1 & 2.

 

4. They rely upon a DN but don't have a copy.

 

5. They rely upon a "legal assignment" NOT and "absolute assignment" or Equitable assignment". (DON'T MAKE SENSE THIS AS I THOUGHT A LEGAL ASSIGNMENT MUST BE ABSOLUTE).

 

6. They rely upon a NOA but have no proof of service.

 

7. They rely upon R. 3(2) of Cancellation NOtices & Copy Docs Regs 1983 (Seems load of Bullsh*t to me).

 

Question is, what should be my next move. Not sure whether to go for strikeout, or defend, or apply order for disclosure on DN (unless order) that they say they will provide at some time if they can find it. If you are looking in PT your views would be very much appreciated.

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok,

 

Procedurally they are in difficulty,

 

Did they plead a default notice in their particulars of claim? if they did then they need to either disclose it or account for where it went, if they have never had the notice then they are in real problems as they signed a statement of truth

Link to post
Share on other sites

No it wasn't in POC. The question was asked in a Part 18 request what date the defendant was served with a DN as required by CCA. By their Reply they gave the date, obviously withy statement of truth and by 31.14 request they confirmed they did not have a copy

R

ok,

 

Procedurally they are in difficulty,

 

Did they plead a default notice in their particulars of claim? if they did then they need to either disclose it or account for where it went, if they have never had the notice then they are in real problems as they signed a statement of truth

Link to post
Share on other sites

No it wasn't in POC. The question was asked in a Part 18 request what date the defendant was served with a DN as required by CCA. By their Reply they gave the date, obviously withy statement of truth and by 31.14 request they confirmed they did not have a copy

R

so, you have leave to file your defence, it seems that, the answers to part 18 allow you to defend the matter fairly easy

 

I do not think a strike out would succeed here, the judge may consider that there are triable issues here

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanx pt. Are there any suggestions to include in the defence?

R

 

so, you have leave to file your defence, it seems that, the answers to part 18 allow you to defend the matter fairly easy

 

I do not think a strike out would succeed here, the judge may consider that there are triable issues here

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick follow up on my last post. Your stiky's PT on using part 18 and 31.14 requests are first class. I have seen how they work and enables you to get info and docs (or not so with DN in my case) and flushes out info. So thanx again PT. Yes have leave to file defence and thats my next job.

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent news, Robin:D

 

Sorry, unable to help with your other query. :(

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Started to put together my defence and have a question. On reviewing my research notes, I have come across something that (I think) PT posted. It said

 

such as hfo v Patel

 

which says, if the agreement is improperly executed then the lender needs to plead for an order under 65 and in default of this the claim fails. the lender cannot simply seek a CCJ if the agreement is not properly executed

 

PT, or anyone else, can you help on this as I can't find HFO v Patel and would like an opinion on when this card is played (i.e. in defence or skeleton argument) as claimant has not pleaded for an order under s.65.

 

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi flaminscoty

 

As advised by straftat, you need to start your own thread. This will keep any advice in one place. Place a link here and I'll help where I can (Maybe site team can transfer your post to save you typing all again). I fully sympathis with you as your story seems similar to mine. In the meantime, to try to put your mind at ease a little, many on the forum have had charging orders against them, me included. Its not the end of the world and doesn't mean it leads to repossession.

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump for my earlier post below. Any views

R

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

Link to post
Share on other sites

flaminscoty has his own thread now, it can be found in the following link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/259660-flaminscoty-link.html

 

 

Robin,

 

have you hit the SOS button in respect of your question ? Alternatively, try pming BRW, vjohn82 or shakespeare62. They may be able to help:)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanx CB

 

As suggested have hit the red triangle re question below

 

Originally Posted by RobinWayRobinme viewpost.gif

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

flaminscoty has his own thread now, it can be found in the following link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/259660-flaminscoty-link.html

 

 

Robin,

 

have you hit the SOS button in respect of your question ? Alternatively, try pming BRW, vjohn82 or shakespeare62. They may be able to help:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanx for looking in PT.

 

Question is related to Copies Docs Regs. Am I right that a creditor bringing a claim cannot just quote these regs to allow a reconstituted agreement as evidence without them complying with the CPR and law on hearsaY evidence as the copies docs regs do not provide that they can be used alone as evidence when a crditor brings a claim.

 

Hope this makes sense

R

 

Sorry, what is the question you want answering?
Link to post
Share on other sites

well, what have they disclosed in their disclosure by list?

 

If they have put the original agreement in there, then they must have it and must produce at trial

 

They can reconstruct, but will need witness evidence etc to show the agreement is a accurate copy

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...