PCN but they got a photo of me!

[scienceboy87]

Hi all, I would really appreciate your advice to a bit of an odd situation!

 

I parked at a friends flat (Nottingham) where the car park is controlled by "Vehicle Control Services LTD" and is a "Parking Charge Notice". There were plenty of signs up etc but there is no pay and display and no visitor permits. My friend told me its sufficient to put a notice up in the window of your car saying "Visiting Flat 4" which I did. I was early to her house and she wasnt dressed yet so I went for a stroll and 20mins later my friend rang me to say there is a ticket being put on my car, and I ran back and just as I arrived the attendent finished writing the ticket. He then stuck it on my screen and I began to move my car. He then took a photo (I was in the car so I assume there will be my face in the photo).

 

I have a few issues:

 

1) Im not going to pay as I was legitimately visiting someone (It is a car park next to a hospital so they are big on enforcement) and after looking at this forum I am just going to ignore all correspondence - correct!?!?!

 

2) The ticket says: Driver Present: NO, Filmed: YES

 

However, technically, I was sitting in my drivers seat when the photo was taken and this will be shown in the photo. I know that there wasnt a photo taken before this as the attendent said to me: "wait while I take a photo". Therefore the driver present should be: YES. (He had filled out the filmed: YES part of the ticket before he had done it). Is this a legit argument to present to them?

 

3) Its an £80.00 charge within 7 days or £120.00 thereafter - Isnt that mentally expensive?!!!! This was in Notts and even in London you get two weeks to reduce it to £40!!

 

4) How are visitors supposed to visit!!! There is no visitor permit system or pay and display!

 

 

Sorry for the long post but bit of an odd situation perhaps. These people make me so angry! To ring up thier phone info service is 50p per minute!!! I was about to pay online and came accross this forum and now I am not going to pay.

 

 

So grateful for any advice.

[dx100uk]

yep totally ignore

 

oh and if you look carefully i bet its NOT a pcn its a ppc

 

pcn are council and police only.

 

unless..........these tarts are operating on behalf of the council?

 

if in doubt scan up the ticket

 

dx

[scienceboy87]

thanks for the quick reply. I can only see Penalty Charge Notice. Couldnt scan but its exactly the same ticket as in this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/123586-pcn-vehicle-control-services.html

 

Hope this helps.

[Startkey&Clutch]

It looks to me like it says "Parking Charge Notice" not 'Penalty' so that makes it a different thing and implies its a private ticket not council.

Out of curiosity, which hospital was it?

[scienceboy87]

Queens Medical Centre. The flats where I parked are very close. There is a gardener who is employed by the flats management but must be getting backhanders from the parking company as its he who phones them up to say "theres a car i dont recognise without a permit!" and theyre down in a hearbeat to ticket.

[dx100uk]

def says parking so ignore it

 

dx

[DDWales]

Hi there. Just been trying to read the ticket but too small. I would suggest you phone the Hospital/Council and get clarification as to who runs the car park (just in case VCS are working on behalf of the Council).

To note though,- Hospital Trusts are seperate entities from Councils so i would assume its a PPC on its own but phone to make sure.

A few Hospital's in Wales still have contracts with PPCs but they work as 'stand alone'-nothing to worry about

VCS are definately a PPC and theyve been a bit naughty with the 'PCN' wording to say the least ( no change there though ).

If it is just VCS alone ignore them. They will pass your details on to a DCA who will send 3-4 'threatograms' before disappearing

PS-photographs mean nothing and will not stand up in court (not that it'll get that far!)

Edited July 31, 2009 by DDWales
spelling

[Al27]

Looks 100% to be a private parking piece of tat. An unenforceable invoice.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore any threatening junkmail you received from them and their powerless debt collectors

• they will give up and go away

 

It's a mail [problem].

 

Having a lovely photo of you has no relevance whatsoever. It doesn't make the charge suddenly enforceable and it's no good because they don't know who you are.

 

It's purpose it to trick you into paying because you think them taking a photo somehow adds some legitimacy.

 

Everything's a [problem] - from the monkey on the ground, to the photo, to the bogroll paperwork.

 

What exactly does the signage say? If you're going to visit them regularly, it would be good to have a look.

[electron99]

Actually having a photo of you in the car could work in your favour.You could claim you were not parked, but driving the car slowly at the time of the photo.Of course you should never use this argument if it is not true.

[Al27]

True. Don't worry though, they'll never bother with court. It's a mail [problem].

[scienceboy87]

ill post up the pics of the sign i took today when i find the cable for my camera. thank you all very much for your help and taking the time to reply. I will keep posting as things happen - and donate some of the money I would have paid to CAG of course!

[scienceboy87]

Attached in a zip is a close up of the parking signs, they are prominently displayed.

 

This is thier website.

 

VCS Parking Enforcement Specialists

 

 

I was speaking to my friend who lives at the flats i got ticketed at and she said that in all the corridors of the flats, the official advice for visitors is to put a notice in the window of the car. There is no pay and display or visitors permit system, so if they are going to clamp visitors anyway its a complete nonsense!

Evil!

Parking sign.zip

[scienceboy87]

I also just found this on their website:

 

"Although the Wheel Clamp is our primary enforcement tool, the issuing of a PCN, although a softer approach, is not the easy alternative to clamping or the symbolic gesture it may be for other parking enforcement companies. Whilst other companies may threaten court proceedings to recover unpaid charges, Vehicle Control Services do pursue all unpaid PCN's through to a Court Summons.

 

We obtain vehicle keeper information from the DVLA and adhere to the DVLA's Voluntary Code of Practice on the release and use of information to enforce parking restrictions on private property and use the latest bespoke IT systems which allows us complete control over every step of the procedure. As a result of this we can tailor our service to the precise needs of the individual client."

 

I know its probably just all talk but the fact they specifically mention that they do persue all to a court summons?

[kiptower]

unfortunatley for them they get their legal advice from "Planet Perky" perky is a well known PPC Troll on the forums,

 

scare tactics, hoping joe public will for for the bull **** ( found in most fields )

 

and the bespoke system is the old ataria and dot matrix printer they found at a boot sale

[DDWales]

I also just found this on their website:

 

"Although the Wheel Clamp is our primary enforcement tool, the issuing of a PCN, although a softer approach, is not the easy alternative to clamping or the symbolic gesture it may be for other parking enforcement companies. Whilst other companies may threaten court proceedings to recover unpaid charges, Vehicle Control Services do pursue all unpaid PCN's through to a Court Summons.

 

We obtain vehicle keeper information from the DVLA and adhere to the DVLA's Voluntary Code of Practice on the release and use of information to enforce parking restrictions on private property and use the latest bespoke IT systems which allows us complete control over every step of the procedure. As a result of this we can tailor our service to the precise needs of the individual client."

 

I know its probably just all talk but the fact they specifically mention that they do persue all to a court summons?

 

Its the usual drivel you see on all PPC websites. They want to entice potential business so by mentioning that each upaid invoice ends up being reclaimed in court is part of that process. If you do a search and here you'll see EXACTLY how many people/times VCS take those to court.... Like most (if not all PPCs) they have alot to prove in order to win a case and have to rely on the OPs lack of knowledge and/or poor defence. When they do chance thier arm occasionally they get 'spanked'

[scienceboy87]

Ive just noticed that the car park of the student flats i live in is also run by this company with the same signs up. There is no council affiliation.

 

When I moved in I paid £150 for a permit for the year. Does this mean that I could have not paid and just got ticket after ticket after ticket and ignored them all?

[crem]

No one on CAG ever suggests you should maliciously not pay for a service (parking) that has been offered and you accept, so no, you shouldn't have not paid for the permit and parked anyway.

 

However, having paid for the permit, if they then invoice you for having a wheel over a white line, or being in bay 21 instead of 22, or your permit had a crease in it, or a 1000 other transgressions they try to invent, then you most certainly should ignore them.

[scienceboy87]

Yes. I do agree to the need of parking permits, just not when they are actively looking for tiny infringments to make money. Thanks for all your responses, Ill post up what happens next.

[patdavies]

Interesting sign.

 

I'd love to know the legal basis for clamping for unpaid prior contraventions...

[kiptower]

sign is interesting

 

re the Disabled,

 

now i wonder if the Disabilty Discrimination Act applies

 

apart from all the other HOGWASH on it

[lamma]

Interesting sign.

 

I'd love to know the legal basis for clamping for unpaid prior contraventions...

 

Its called blackmail I believe.

[crem]

Its called blackmail I believe.

 

:lol:

[barrybarry]

Its called blackmail I believe.

 

I would also be really interested in any actual basis for this because I am not paying my recent parking ticket, but a sign does state that they will return and clamp any cars with unpaid fines.

 

It's a residential car park by the way and mine is underground in a fob access only secure car park.

 

Would they be tresspassing? Could I report it as illegal? Could I remove the clamp myself?

 

Thanks

[lamma]

Any 'claim' for previous events would be against the driver at the time NOT the vehicle ! Plus if you have an assigned parking space or the right to use a (any) parking space you have a 'right to peaceful enjoyment' - clamping is a no no for them then.

[Al27]

Hollow threats. If hell did freeze over, it would be time for a call to the police.