Challenging a CCJ??

[pagibbo]

I hope some of you guys can advise me.

 

I entered a Debt Management plan with my creditors and it was running smoothly for over 6 months when Allience and Leicester applied for a CCJ at Norfolk court. I could not attend and the paperwork from my debt management company was not at the court at the time of the hearing. The judge granted the CCJ and ordered the circa £23k to be paid within 28 days or a monthly payment of over £1100 a month.

 

I requested a re-determination and this was granted and moved to Liverpool court where I could attend. The paper work from my debt management company was delivered in time to the court and this detailed my income and expenditure along with all my other creditors and the payments I was making to them. It showed I had been paying Alliance and Leicester a pro rata amount on a monthly basis for 9 months at the time of this hearing and they had been gladly accepting them.

 

A rather snooty solicitor representin A&L met me in the waiting room (first time I had ever set foot in a court) and advised they where now applying for a charging order on my property at this hearing.

 

The judge listened to her then reviewed my paperwork and the outcome was that she declined A&L request for a charging order. Agreed I had made reasonable contribution towards my loan and done everything I could to try and rectify my financial commitment to them given the vast reduction in my income. Set the payments to the rate I had been paying for the 9 or so months and she also rejected the solicitors request for costs.

 

The judge advised that if the paperwork had been received by the original court she doubted the CCJ would have been issued and advised me to get this "set asside".

 

This is the bit I am confused on. I know I need to submit a N244 form (not sure what should go in it though). But whats the process and what court should this go to? The Norfolk court where the CCJ was originally granted or the Liverpool court where the re-determination took place and the judges advice was given.

 

I hope someone can advise

 

Thanks everyone for a fantastic forum

 

Paul

[BlurredFX]

I should think it would be the Liverpool Court - the one local to you.

 

I have tried and failed to have a CCJ set-aside (my own mistake), but you are on the right lines.

 

There will be someone with better advice soon.

[pagibbo]

Thanks BluredFX

I am Reading as many threads as I can to try and learn the best approach.

[sleepingdog]

Hi pagibbo , I agree with the last judge in so far as the ccj for forthwith judgement would probably not been given by the first judge had he or she known of your financial struggles and that you had been paying A & L for the previous 9 months but I suspect a CCJ would have been given allowing you to pay smaller monthly installments. You have done well posting on this site and both you and I may learn more from the replies you get

sleepindog

[supasnooper]

Hi there,

 

I think the judge is referring to the lack of paperwork that was presented to him.

 

You will need to complete a form N244 and send to Liverpool County Court to request the set aside.

This needs to be done ASAP, it will also cost you £75.00 unless you can claim fee remission ( form ex160 I think).

 

One of the reasons you are asking for a set aside would be the advice offered by Judge xxxxxxx that you ask for a set aside. Think hard about exactly the words used, it may help.

Also, you never know, you may get the same Judge which will help you further. Another reason would be that you were not aware of your legal rights at the time of the original CCJ.

 

Have a look at the links below for further guidance -

 

Setting aside the original CCJ of your CCA

CCJ removal inc. step by step guide

 

Also have a read of how this CAG member has achieved her set aside -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/167654-help-ccj-charge-home.html

 

I would also suggest that you send a Subject Access Request to A&L as well. This is to get any documentation relating to the account which may offer further avenues of getting the CCJ set aside.

 

Template letter below - this will cost £10.00

 

 

Your Name

Your Address

Your Postcode

The Data Controller

Company Name

Company Address

Company Postcode

Date

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request s7(1)

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER(S): XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to detailed occurrences relating to the above account number.

 

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to these accounts, including but not limited to:

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the accounts.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

 

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

13. A True copy of the original consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

14. If it is contended you do not hold such data before such a date, please confirm this by providing the Certificate of Destruction.

15. Any Other information relating to these accounts

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10 by postal order. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable for the previous XX years.

Furthermore, such a request for specific information to confirm my identity will not deviate or inhibit the 40 days time limit allowed for compliance with my Subject Access Request.

Please note - If I do not receive all the data I have requested within the timescale specified above,

I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so, together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

Finally, I would appreciate your Company's due diligence in this matter and look forward to receiving the documentation requested.

Yours Faithfully,

XXXXXXXX

Do NOT sign, enclose £10.00 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery

 

 

Hope this helps.

[pagibbo]

Thanks supasnooper.

could you possibly guide me through the N244 and what should go into it please?

 

Thank you very much

[pagibbo]

Forgot to mention SAR has been sent to A&L just waiting on a response.

[pagibbo]

For section C on N244 is this detailed enough?

 

 

 

Whilst attending the re-determination of the CCJ at Liverpool County Court. District Judge *****, after hearing from both parties, advised the claimants solicitor handling the case, that in her opinion had the Northampton court been made aware that Alliance and Leicester had been accepting reduced payments from myself for a period of seven months and I had entered into a debt management plan with all my creditors in order that I repay my debts in full on a pro-rata basis. Judge ***** doubted the County Court Judgment would be granted and that I should look at getting this set aside. Judge ***** declined the claimants request for a charging order and also declined the claimants request for costs. Judge ***** advised that I should look towards getting the County Court Judgement set aside. District Judge ***** after re-determination set the payments to the level that I had previously been paying Alliance and Leicester through the ongoing arangament with my debt management company PayPlan.

 

 

What letters should be included and should I send copies of the original CCJ and re-determination.

Just trying to get things in place whilst waiting for the SAR to come back

 

Thx all

Edited August 12, 2009 by supasnooper
removed judges name

[supasnooper]

I don't think the statement will get you a set aside as it lacks any legal basis to do so.

Probably my fault for not being explicit about what the Judge was saying and referring to......I'll try again.

 

I think the paperwork your Judge referred to was regarding what documentation A&L had submitted.

The probability was probably zero documents were submitted by A&L as the original case was ran at Northampton Bulk County Court where no documents are required if you don't defend.

I think your Judge, looking through the case notes, probably spotted this and spoke his thoughts out loud, which you heard and have taken on board.

 

What if any paperwork did A&L submit to the Judge?

 

Did you get any copies of this paperwork ?

 

Did you see any of the A&L documents ?

 

If your Judge was referring to the A&L documentation and not yours, then re-jig your statement to show that it is the A&L documentation or lack of it, that the Judge has advised you to apply for the set aside.

That is why I advised you to try to recall how the Judge spoke of the documentation.

 

I don't know if the courts will supply a copy of the case paperwork to you but it maybe worth a phone call to the Court to see if A&L submitted a Credit card agreement with their Particulars of Claim and is there in the file.

 

Unfortunately, you are stuck waiting for A&L to comply with your SAR, when really you do need to get the application for the set aside submitted.

 

If A&L did not submit any legal documentation (Agreement, default notice etc.) then this is the legal opening for your set aside application.

 

Hope this helps.

[pagibbo]

Hi,

Well A&L finally sent me through some paperwork in relation to my SAR. The only thing of use to me was a loan I had forgotten about that was taken out in 2003 and paid off in 2004 that had PPI on it. It only took 1 call to the PPI department at A&L then 5 days later an offer of £3022.48 as full refund with interest. I have also reclaimed the PPI on the loan that caused the CCJ and they have refunded over £6000 into the loan account so that has reduced the outstanding debt by a very nice amount.....

 

There was noting in the SAR with reference to court action or any telephone transcripts of it either.

 

I guess the next phase is an N244??

 

Thanks

 

Paul

Edited September 29, 2009 by pagibbo