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susiemac77

how long can my employer take to decide whether or not to dismiss me

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my boss has threatened me with dismissal

 

I was given final written warning last year for sickness absence.

 

It runs out on Friday and I have only been off 2 days

 

He called me to a meeting last thursday and said it was for my general attitude of defiance and because I had been late 7 times in 13 weeks.

 

I told him that since he hadnt given me formal notice with reasonable time to prepare that I wanted the meeting stopped and formalised at a later date. He then yelled at me, called me a smart arse and said I had an answer for everything and that he was now making his decision based purely on that meeting.

 

He hasnt got back to me since and Im on Holiday tomorrow and dont work Fridays but my supervisor said if he wanted to take action, they had started the proceedings last thursday

 

Firstly, is that true if I wasnt given formal notice (it was put in writing but not with any reasons)

 

Secondly, how long can he take to decide whether to proceed as am worried at how long this will be hanging over me


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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Well it wont be hanging over me, got a letter in the post today inviting me to formal disciplinary next Thursday

 

Letter states its for being late 10 times in 13 weeks and is accompianed by a copy of an email sent by my supervisor to my boss after the meeting listing what happened at the meeting. It doesnt mention anywhere me being yelled at or called names and states that I was rude and insobordinate. It also states I was late 12 times in 13 weeks

 

I have no idea where I stand now but surely I cant be fairly dismissed for being 1 or 2 mins late on 5 occasions, 5 mins once and 7 mins once (this was all listed to me at the meeting). And also how can the evidence be relied on when the number of times late has been stated at 3 different numbers?

 

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated as panicking now


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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The evidence my friend in your case is simple in that you are `unreliable`

 

That initself is grounds for dismissal i am sorry to say.

 

Good luck.

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I meant advice to defend myself, not just being told Im unreliable


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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I forgot to mention that the company are currently in the process of starting a large round of redundancies, have already cut us down to a four day week and are basically getting rid of everyone they can without paying redundancy and that I have previously volunteered to take redundancy but was refused because I have worked there for 17 years and "it would be too expensive to pay you redundancy"


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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I'm not really sure to be honest on this one if your final written expires on friday whether it can be taken to dismissal as proceedings started before this or whether they have to return to stage one.

 

Hopefully Elchi or Erika will be along to help soon.

 

Good Luck

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Thanks

 

Fingers crossed!


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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BTW have you filed a grievence for being shouted at by the manager?

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Unfortunately you have given them evidence. The only defence would be to deny that you were late on all or some (if you have already admited any with two witnesses present) and ask them to show proof. You could claim it was a vendetta against you by your boss as your final written warning is running out and using the inconsistencies in the number of occasions you were late as evidence. If you clock in electronically you could argue your boss has access to the records and so could change them at will and offer this as one explanation for the differing occasions quoted. All of this is only likely to be of use at an Industrial Tribunal after you have been sacked. Keep a diary of everything that happens written up at home at the end of each day even fill in days or even events months past. Make sure you have copies of every email sent to you and get them off the premises. It can help to prove a pattern of management behaviour. Take every opportunity to appeal and if sacked go straight to the Industrial Tribunal don't leave it. Unfortunately it looks as though they are going to sack you, fight your corner do not walk out unless you really find it unbearable. Point out the unreasonable behaviour of your boss. Nothing would please them more if they can get you out by just being nasty to you especially if it is just your word against the boss. Not sure how the offer of redundancy would impact your position more evidence of constructive dismissal at a tribunal certainly. Someone else will probably have a better idea.

Edited by 300
Just read you last post

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Thanks

 

I have no intention of being bullied into walking!

 

And I know there are inconsistencies. One of my colleagues has been late 54 times and apart from being asked verbally to improve has had no action taken. But he isnt already on a warning and has only been with the company for 4 years so clearly there would be less benefit to hassling him.

 

My boss and I have never got on and he is always harder on me than anyone else, and incase this sounds like "poor wee me" the reason Im on a final warning is for being off for 15 days last year with a stomach hernia that I got corrected through my partners private health. I was off for 2 weeks when I ripped it open, 2 days after the operation and 3 days for a post op infection. I was advised to take 6 weeks recovery but was worried I would be sacked. Then a couple of months ago, another of my colleagues took 2 months for the same operation and had no repercussions


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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The information in the link below may help.

Click on the employers questions as well as the employees.

 

Acas - Discipline

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I havent filed a grievance

 

What effect would this have. I was worried about antagonising him and making the whole situation worse


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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In your OP you say about the meeting last Thursday,

(it was put in writing but not with any reasons)

 

Do you mean that you just received a letter saying to attend that meeting and not specifying that it was a disciplinary meeting or giving the reasons for the meeting?

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I said "following your return to work interview please attend a meeting to discuss the possibility of disciplinary action..." "... at this stage there is no need for you to be accompianed, but by all means feel free to do so)

 

The RTW was for 2 days sick (my first sick days in 11 1/2 months) but the meeting was about timekeeping that had never been flagged to me at all

 

The letter also stated that he is "fully aware of your disciplinary record and that your final is due to run out"


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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I think at this point you have nothing to lose.

It may help to deter them from trying to claim that last Thursday's meeting was a disciplinary one.

 

Acas - Grievances

 

Again click on both sets of questions.

 

If I understand you correctly, the meeting last Thursday was held with your supervisor.

 

As, in my opinion, being shouted at and called names constitutes bullying it would be proper to send your formal request for a Grievance meeting to your Boss.

 

I'd write that,

At a meeting on ...(date) with.....(supervisor's name) I was shouted at and called a 'smart arse'.

 

The reason that I did not bring this to your attention before today is that I felt intimidated and I was worried about antagonising him and making the whole situation worse

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Problem is it was my boss (one of the Directors of the Company)who shouted! The supervisor was just his witness who typed up an account of the "discussion"

 

My manager (who was on holiday last week) will hold the formal meeting next week


mbna - no agreement provided - settled for 31% of balance!

halifax - no enforceable agreement - account held

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OK then. How about this:

 

Formal request for a Grievance meeting to your Manager.

 

At a meeting on ...(date) with.....(Supervisor's name & Boss' name) I was shouted at and called a 'smart arse' by (Boss' name).

 

The reason that I did not raise this issue before today is that I felt unsupported, bullied and intimidated. I was also worried about antagonising him and making the whole situation worse so I thought it best to wait for your return.

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