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alfwithhair

Personal Finance: Can you go to prison over debt?

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Found this earlier, thought I might be interesting and informative reading

 

Personal Finance: Can you go to prison over debt?

 

 

 

24 July 2009

 

 

  1. Until the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA), no specific law covered credit.
     
  2. The architect of the CCA – Lord Crowther – had all his recommendations approved except one – the appointment of a Credit Commissioner – which many believed he would eventually fill when his recommendations were put into place. The job of policing the CCA was given to the Office of Fair Trading instead.
     
  3. Despite extremely extensive regulations on credit advertising, not a single case was prosecuted using these regulations for over 25 years. And then the law was relaxed as the regulations were considered unworkable.
     
  4. Until 2005, gambling debts were unenforceable by law.
     
  5. The case law that defines what is meant by ‘extortionate lending’ found rates of 13% as ‘harsh and unconscionable’. And that was for someone lending to a person with an impaired history. Most credit cards now charge more than that.
     
  6. Debtor prisons were abolished in 1874, though non payment of rates and fines can still result in being banged up. Similarly, if someone obtains judgment against you and you fail to attend an ‘oral examination’, a warrant for your arrest, and imprisonment, can follow. Even today.
     
  7. If a lender does not ask sufficient questions about the financial circumstances of a prospective borrower, or lends knowing of potential difficulty in being able to repay, the debt can be brought before the court and ‘set aside’ – because the decision to lend is considered ‘injudicious’.
     
  8. Urgent legislation was enacted in 2004 to stem the tide of students declaring themselves bankrupt on graduation, and avoiding student loans. Over 1000 students used this loophole until the law changed such that student loans are no longer affected by bankruptcy.
     
  9. If a guarantor pays off a loan, they are entitled to any security held by the original lender, and have a perfect right to pursue the debt, just as if they had lent the money in the first place, using ancient ‘rights of subrogation’.
     
  10. The Child Support Agency has the ability to obtain a legal judgment against a person without going through any court process. Child Support Orders, as they are called, do not appear on credit files either.

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Good find alf :)


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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If a lender does not ask sufficient questions about the financial circumstances of a prospective borrower, or lends knowing of potential difficulty in being able to repay, the debt can be brought before the court and ‘set aside’ – because the decision to lend is considered ‘injudicious’.

 

-------

interesting bit


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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If a lender does not ask sufficient questions about the financial circumstances of a prospective borrower, or lends knowing of potential difficulty in being able to repay, the debt can be brought before the court and ‘set aside’ – because the decision to lend is considered ‘injudicious’.

 

-------

interesting bit

 

I also found this particular section interesting.

 

Would be interesting to find out if this would actually work.

 

Companies such as Sharklycard constantly increasing your credit limit without checking if you have any ability to repay.

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exactly


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Isn't this how most people get into debt in the first place alf? You've got a credit card already and another comes along to entice you, then another, then another. This is how we got caught. Insufficient checks on peoples means......or do they do it on purpose???

Sh**heads, the lot of them.

Banks are a neccesary evil.

jed

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Hey Alfwithair im new to this site but needed some advice. i noticed your profile says something about JD Williams - No CCA...no idea what this means but i have racked up a big debt with them and wanted to know if there is any loopholes with them to get out of paying this debt? that sounds so bad but hopefully you see where i am coming from? if you could get back to me that would be a great help! many Thanks

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If a lender does not ask sufficient questions about the financial circumstances of a prospective borrower, or lends knowing of potential difficulty in being able to repay, the debt can be brought before the court and ‘set aside’ – because the decision to lend is considered ‘injudicious’.

 

 


Nice find

 

Might try that with my son's overdraft - given to him while he had a default on his credit file & an arrangement to repay...

 

If they had looked into it, they wouldn't be chasing him for his overdraft now!

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Hey Alfwithair im new to this site but needed some advice. i noticed your profile says something about JD Williams - No CCA...no idea what this means but i have racked up a big debt with them and wanted to know if there is any loopholes with them to get out of paying this debt? that sounds so bad but hopefully you see where i am coming from? if you could get back to me that would be a great help! many Thanks

 

Best to start a new thread and explain what the debt is etc then you would get the right guidance, but basically if it is a credit card / loan then you cca the dca to see if there is an enforceable agreement


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Found this earlier, thought I might be interesting and informative reading

 

Personal Finance: Can you go to prison over debt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

24 July 2009

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Until the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA), no specific law covered credit.


  1. The architect of the CCA – Lord Crowther – had all his recommendations approved except one – the appointment of a Credit Commissioner – which many believed he would eventually fill when his recommendations were put into place. The job of policing the CCA was given to the Office of Fair Trading instead.

  2. Despite extremely extensive regulations on credit advertising, not a single case was prosecuted using these regulations for over 25 years. And then the law was relaxed as the regulations were considered unworkable.

  3. Until 2005, gambling debts were unenforceable by law.

  4. The case law that defines what is meant by ‘extortionate lending’ found rates of 13% as ‘harsh and unconscionable’. And that was for someone lending to a person with an impaired history. Most credit cards now charge more than that.

  5. Debtor prisons were abolished in 1874, though non payment of rates and fines can still result in being banged up. Similarly, if someone obtains judgment against you and you fail to attend an ‘oral examination’, a warrant for your arrest, and imprisonment, can follow. Even today.

  6. If a lender does not ask sufficient questions about the financial circumstances of a prospective borrower, or lends knowing of potential difficulty in being able to repay, the debt can be brought before the court and ‘set aside’ – because the decision to lend is considered ‘injudicious’.

  7. Urgent legislation was enacted in 2004 to stem the tide of students declaring themselves bankrupt on graduation, and avoiding student loans. Over 1000 students used this loophole until the law changed such that student loans are no longer affected by bankruptcy.

  8. If a guarantor pays off a loan, they are entitled to any security held by the original lender, and have a perfect right to pursue the debt, just as if they had lent the money in the first place, using ancient ‘rights of subrogation’.

  9. The Child Support Agency has the ability to obtain a legal judgment against a person without going through any court process. Child Support Orders, as they are called, do not appear on credit files either.

 

 

hi, can i ask are all these points in the consumer credit act. wondered if this was an argument i could try?? ( my thread is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/220250-lloyds-irresponsible-lending-new-post.html)

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Anybody know whether item 7 is part of the consumer credit act or something else?

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I find that particular paragraph interesting too. Personally, I was using credit cards to pay off other ones. A quick glance at my credit file would have told any fool that I was up to my neck in it, but not only was I able to get more credit cards, but the ones I already had kept increasing the balance.

 

There is no way that this could be considered anything other than 'injudicious'.

 

Regards to all.

 

Fred


Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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It could be viewed as reckless lending!!!!


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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It could be viewed as reckless lending!!!!

 

Well it's something I've always wondered about BB. At a time when I knew I was in deep trouble, credit card companies kept upping my limit which of course encouraged me to get in even deeper trouble. It's rebounded on most of them now, because I've stopped paying them for various reasons.

 

It would be a very interesting argument to take to court if ever I get there though.

 

Regards.

 

Fred


Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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I think you would need to find a very brave CC judge that would 'step out of line' and declare the lending policies of major banks and finance houses 'injudicious' -although everyone and their dog knows they were.

 

On 'extortionate lending' as I understand it, judges have given short shrift to company charging very high APR's ie 2-300% in some cases but I think the baove also applies to the normal credit card rates.

 

David

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Bear in mind though, Imprisonment for failing to attend oral examination is very rare, and it's NOT for the debt, it's imprisonment for contempt of Court.A little known fact is that Margaret Thatcher (may she rot in wherever she's going) wanted to bring debtors' prisons back


I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Margaret Thatcher wanted to bring debters prisons back! :eek:That is someting new i learnt! If that was the case over half the population would be in prison including the bankers! LOL


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Well it's something I've always wondered about BB. At a time when I knew I was in deep trouble, credit card companies kept upping my limit which of course encouraged me to get in even deeper trouble. It's rebounded on most of them now, because I've stopped paying them for various reasons.

 

It would be a very interesting argument to take to court if ever I get there though.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Hi Fred

Exactly what happenend to me too:eek:


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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A little known fact is that Margaret Thatcher (may she rot in wherever she's going) wanted to bring debtors' prisons back

 

I dont seem to be able to find anything to back this statement up !.

 

If it were to happen, it would certainly kick start building industry:)


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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi CitB

I did a google on it but could not find it either! I wonder where Rameses got this info from?


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I got hooked on Martin Lewis' credit card 'tarts' and bounced large balances around for a year at 0%. Then I ran out of CC companies to use and then missed a payment and rates of 4.9% and 12.9% for life got shot up to 30% and that's when the trouble started.

 

My OH is an alcoholic and used to make up absolute drivel on the application forms re his earnings 'just to see' and boom, a credit card with £5000 limit would land on the mat 2 days later :eek:

 

My unemployed 20-year old son has same initials and surname and address as me and as soon as he turned 18, the CC application forms starting coming in at the rate of 1 a day:eek: Luckily I got to the post before he did because I am damn sure he would have signed up for some!!!

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If it were to happen, it would certainly kick start building industry:)

 

Indeed, there would be precious few people left at liberty. Just the millionaires and the Royals rattling around with no-one to cater to their whims - they wouldn't survive on their own for a month:D Who'd put the toothpaste on their brushes, run their baths, help them dress, cook their breakfast?

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Hi CitB

I did a google on it but could not find it either! I wonder where Rameses got this info from?

 

Try this google link and have a wade through the hundreds of references to it.

 

margaret thatcher debtors prison - Google Search=


I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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I had a trawl through some of those yesterday, and nowhere could I find that MT had suggested the reintroduction of debtor's prisons:???:


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Indeed, there would be precious few people left at liberty. Just the millionaires and the Royals rattling around with no-one to cater to their whims - they wouldn't survive on their own for a month:D Who'd put the toothpaste on their brushes, run their baths, help them dress, cook their breakfast?

Wasn't it Marx who said, If a banker dies, nobody notices. If a farmer dies, people go hungry.

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