section 21

[Steve25]

Our landlords agent made us sign a Notice Requiring Possession when we took our AST It was for six months starting on the 17th Feb 09 although we signed the agreement on the 31st jan 09

 

The NRP was dated 16th Feb one day before our fixed term commenced, the landlord has increased the rent and only notified us less than four weeks before the end of the agreement 17th Aug.

 

Do we have any rights under section 21 as the NRP was signed and dated prior to the fixed term commenced

[bedlington83]

As I understand it, a section 21 notice cannot be given until the tenancy starts. Under the circumstances I would imagine that its invalid, but I'm not a lawyer

[bedlington83]

When did you pay the deposit? S21 notice cannot be given before the deposit is protected. Housing act 2004 s215;

215 Sanctions for non-compliance

 

(1) If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when—

(a) the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

(b) the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to

[Steve25]

We have been in the property since 17th August 2007 when we paid a deposit, every six months the agent signs us up to a new six month fixed term AST and at that time we sign a notice requiring possession. This notice was dated 16th feb expire 16th Aug the AST starts on 17th feb and ends on 17th Aug.

 

We are trying to find out if the notice is correctly issued.

[bedlington83]

So you've been a tenant since 17th August 2007 and you've received a section 21 notice 18 months later. That's a bit different from the impression that your first post created. As far as I can tell, and based on the latest information, the notice is perfectly valid but like I say, I'm not a lawyer

[Steve25]

Sorry if this is confusing, but i have had 4 section 21s as I have had four fixed term AST. The current notice is dated and issued on 16th Feb 2009 We started our new fixed term AST on the 17th Feb 2009 I am trying to find out if this proceedure is correct

[Planner]

The validity of the s.21 notice will depend on whether or not your deposit has been protected and you supplied with the details of it. Therefore, has your deposit been protected in one of the x3 tennancy deposit schemes and have you been supplied with details of the protection?

 

How has your landlord proposed a rent increase? via a new tenancy agreement?

[Steve25]

The depositwas paid on the first AST in Aug o7 and is in The Deposit protection service. Each time we signed a new six month AST the deposit was not changed.

 

We asked the landlords agent what was happening about the new AST on 22nd July as we had heard nothing, he telephoned on 24th July to say that the landlord want to increase the rent by £100

 

We sent an e-mail on 27th saying we would take another AST but only at the existing rent.

 

We have not had a response to that offer, when we checked our paper work we found the NRP was dated and signed prior to the starting date of the AST

[bedlington83]

So the question your asking is; does the signing of a new AST invalidate the S21 notice that you received a day prior to the signing of the new agreement?

[Steve__M]

When it comes down to it, if the Section 21 is unenforceable and the landlord realises it then he will issue a new Section 21 giving you 2 months' notice to quit.

 

What worked well for my neighbour was a politely worded letter to the agent, sent close enough to the end of the period (ie. about 15th August in your case) stating simply that the rent increase was unfair based on rent for similar properties in the area, and couldn't be accepted.

 

In her case the landlord backed down

 

On the other hand they might decide you are trouble and ensure that eventually you will be kicked out: They might realise their mistake straight away and issue 2 months notice, but that then won't take effect till 17th November. They might issue a Section 8. There is a risk that you would get evicted, but hopefully their incorrect paperwork will protect you. They might issue a Section 13 notice of rent increase which would apply from 17th October (1 month's notice is required).

[Kentish Lass]

IMHO, technically, I would say that the first s.21 notice was not valid as it was issued prior to the start of the tenancy (and prior to the protection of the deposit). However, the second s.21 notice is probably valid, and the third and fourth not necessary at all, since the second s.21 notice was issued after the start of the tenancy and would have remained valid since it was issued. It is simply a notice that the LL requires possession at the end of the tenancy. To acquire such possession, LL would have to apply for a court order.

 

Agents seems to love issuing these "Sword of Damocles" notices along with the tenancy agreement, but most good landlords consider them very bad practice and not conducive to good relations with one's tenants!

 

With regard to the proposed rent increase, as Steve M pointed out, this should be notified to you by an s.13 notice of rent increse which should be issued at least a month prior to the proposed month of increase. It then becomes a matter of negotiation - e.g. a letter as suggested by Steve M.

 

I never increase my rents more than £10 or £15 pcm, and have in fact kept my rents stable for the past couple of years as I wish to keep my tenants, and understand that we are all under financial pressure at the moment. So far this has worked - two of my main properties have been let to the same tenants for 4 and 3 years respectively and although they are under the local market rent, I am happy to keep them!

Edited July 29, 2009 by Kentish Lass

[Steve25]

Thanks guys for all your help, we have agreed with the landlord to another six months at the existing rent.

[Kentish Lass]

That is excellent news.